APRIL‘ 30,105: SUBSIDY QUESTION RE VIE WED IN SENA TE f (Continued form Page l) v Manitoba's Subsidies In 1870 theGovernmerltJof the flgy bought the territory known as Rupert's Land from the Hudson’; Bay Company. Ind I'll the same year the Province o! Manitoba was es- tablished. The money paid to the Hudson's Bay Company, together with the cost of aurveyihs the lands. policing the territory. and other in- cidental . became a charge on pig public» revenues of Canada. when Manitoba became a province she did not get the ownership of thc lands and natural resources within her boundaries. The Crown in Call- sda retained them and gave to ev- ery marl who would take up a home- stead in Manitoba 160 acres of land free. Under these circumstances Manitoba had to get certain subsidies from the Federal treasury to enable her to set up housekeeping and meet tho necessary expenses, bu; none of these subsidies was earmarked as a payment in lieu of public lands. In 1873 Prince Edward Island came info the Confederacy. She had no public lands, and never had any. Many years before that time the Crown of England gave them all a- way to n few favourites in the Old Country. If the Crown in Canada had bought out the English/garoprict- ors in the same way that it bought the western lands, and had given homesteads to the settlers in Prince Edward Island free, it would have purs-uedfih kllciple, in respect to that province, the course followed in the case of Manitoba, but it did not do this. The Federal Government gave to Prince Edward Island g, sub- sidy in lieu of public lands of $45,- 000 a year, and agreed p0 loan the Provincial Government any sum up to $800,000 it might wish to bonow to buy out the proprietors, upon which sum five per cent interest would be charged, and deducted from this subsidy. This borrowing power was _-_a-_- Period of their lives, are much gross. Bi" than in the other provinces. Ad- ditional local taxation is therefore out of the question. With our preg- elnt revenue we cannot make anything like adequate provision for the sick and the Door amongst us. We can. not think of introducing the 01¢ is, pension scheme, which several of the Other provinces have adopted or are “dwtlng- We "hhilt pay our school teachers salaries that will at all colu- Dare with the salaries which the men and women ill the- teaching Profession in the other provinces re- ccive. Tile consequence is the; our educational system was on the eve of disorganization-perhaps dim-up. llim-rlfllfily. Bud a crisis was narrow- ly averted. Our teachers threatened to lesion in a body if their salaries were not increased. Under the“ circumstances, would it be unreason. alllt fill‘ us t0 ask. and expect, that we be immediately pug upon nn cllllflllly with the other landless prov- inces in the matter of subsidies? Surely not. Appeal To Justice Now allow me to compute what that would mean. The other prov- iiiws are receiving $1.50 per head of their population, in lieu 0f public lands. We receive six cents per head -a difference of $1.44. some of ‘the other provinces received their gnh. sidy on an assumed population great- er than the actual at the start. At one time our population was over 109.000; it is now loss than 100,000. We think the decline in numbers has been caused in part at least, by the discrimination from which we have suffered since we entered the Union. \'i'0uld it be fair first to treat us with injustice and then to punish us for all time for the consequences of that injustice? Surely not. Under the cir- cumstances, l think that in all flir- ness our subsidy should be comput- ed on a population of 100,000; and this would give u: an additional-sub- to emphasise here and now, as strong- "ro rwelvins. did she ssll any other Prfivkice to- assist her? And-if ‘she did not, why should we? Her claims W" 5° iillt that they could not be Wllihhfildi- and ours one whit less 1118i? 0r do sire and geography de- termine the quality of justice? It is true we cannot get an ex nslon of our boundaries. but that is all the more reason why we should get equality oi financial treatment, 4 In November, 1027, there was held ll» Qillwl a Dominion-Provincial Conference at which many important subleots were discussed, but. nothing was settled as regards subsidies or public lands. Certain of the dele- Edit! "Om. some 01 the prgvjnggg seemed to take a patronizing attitude towards Prince Edward Island, which, l" ml’ OPlIIlOII. was altogether unnec- essary and very unfortunate. I wish l! as I can, that Prince Edward ls- land is not lnokln, ‘for aims or doles, bl" ll "kl"! for what lhe believes to be long over-due justice-such lus- tice as Manitoba has received since the early days of her existence; such lustice as Saskatchewan and Alberta have received since they were born. And this leads me to the conclusion that interprovincial conferences arc not the best occasions to consider and settle all such questions as we are now discussing. The Parliament of Canada is, of course, the most felifeiehlill-llle and authoritative body that can be convened in Canada, and, in the last analysis, is the only body which can determine the pol- icy the country should follow. To the Parliament of Canada I therefore make my appeal. Moreover. not the least of the duties of the Senate of Canada is the protection of the rights of minorities and small prov- inces. It is fitting, therefore, that I should introduce my appeal in this honourable House, and I do so with confidence. _ . ~ \ I have endeavoured to present my oase briefly and clearly, but in my desire to be brief, I may have sacri- ficed clas-ity. and if so, I shall wei- come any question or questions that honourable members may ask me, calculated to clear up any points that may need elucidation. And now I re- spectfully ask my honourable lead- er, the representative of the Govern- THE CHARLOTTETOWN GUARDIAN- 90.000. I thought lr. was 88,000. But. whatever the population is, there are remedies which the province may take to improve its financial posi- tion. The PrLme Minister oflNova Scotia, Hon. Mr. Rhodes, said the other day that they would have a deficit of some $800,000 in Nova Sco- tfa this year, if I am not mistaken. and that they were in financial straits. He thought if a referendum were taken as to whether that pro- vince should conform with other pro- vinoes in having Government control of the liquor traffic, the result might benefit the provincial exchequer to such an extent as to wipe out the deficit. I have no doubt that if they had some kind of liquor control m Nova Scctia it would settle many of their difficulties. The Government of the Province of Ontario last year received $40,000,000 for the liquor they sold, and thc profits were quite substantial. The Province of Quebec has made on an average between $4,- 000,000 and $5,000,000 a year, which has helped considerably, Other pl")- vinces that have liquor control have dcno very vgcll also. Liquor "Not So Scarce" The people of Prince Edward Is- land want to enjoy the luxury of prohibition; yet, honourable gentle- men, liquor is not so scarce there as YOU mlEht. think; If the honourable gentleman would apply to his own Government to take the control of liquor into their own hands, they would havc a remedy. The honour- able gentleman knows that there arc people in the province who drink. They drink without paying anything to the province, whether they get it through booticggers- Hon. lilr. ll-nndurnnd: Moonshiners. Hon. liir. (3.1. ' oz" from moon shincrs, as ti: maple leader says, or in any o. way. However, there is one l-c y. Then I a011, honourable gentlemen. is it not an anomaly to have 90,000 people-the population of a ward or so in Toronto or ill ltlontreal-gov- ernod as they are in Prince Edward Island? That, is something really ought to be considered. Not- that ' withstanding their small population they have a governor. and houses ofl ther by the Government, which ~pflid for it out of current rev- enue, or by the tenants themsel- yes. One of the terms and condi- tions of that province's entry into Confederation was;.. This is a citation: That as the Government of Prince Edward Island holds no land from the Crown, and con- Eeqllflitly enjoys no revenue from that source for the con- struction and maintenance of local works, the Dominion Gov- ernment shall pay by half-year- ll! instalments, in advance, to the Government of Prince Edward Island, forty-five thousand dol. lals Pore annum, less interest Bl five Per cantum Per annum, upon any sum not exceeding eight hundred thousand dollars, ‘which the Dominion Government may advance to the Prince Edward Is- land Government for the our. chase of lands now held by large proprietors. I quote again from the Report; Advances were drawn by the Plilvllll‘? ilflfllhst the sum allow- ed in the foregoing provision to nearly the full extent for the Purpose of buying out the re- mhlhlhil absentee proprietcrships and transferring the lands to their own settlers. In the nature of things, the transaction was a, costly one to the province, both from the point of view of its administrative ex- pence and loss of interest. There was. in addition, a net cash loss Bl $190,000 on the principal out- lo-y. The Government submitted to us a detailed claim showing a very considerable gross loss on these land transactions. The consequence has been that, in point of fact, the province has never had any beneficial enjoy- ment of the provision which was made for them “in lieu of public lands" 0!] their entry into Con- federation, and they argue that the special circumstances sul'- rounding. thc transaction are so different from what was in con- templation both by the Domin- ion Government and themselves ‘when the provision was made, that they should not be deprived of their annual payment in its full amount. The claim is, of course. a very belated one, but ll; is advanced. as we understand it, 0n very broad equitable grounds rather than upon strict contract. We think it must be looked at in the the financial situation in conjunc. tion with the transfer to those pm. vinces of their natural resources. N0 Legislation Th]! Session My honourable friend has stressed is entitled to an increased subsidy. or to better terms, in accordance with those granted to the landless prov- inces of the West. I suggest to my honourable friend that the Maritime Provinces, and his province in pa‘;- lticular, will lose nothing by await- ing the final settlement between the Government and the “Iestern Prov- inces, for whatever benefits accrue to those provinces in the final settle- mfihi "my have a beneflcent effect upon hb own province, and may af- ford stronger arguments than he canadvance today for a final ad- justmcnt of the claims of Prince Edward Island. The honourable gentleman asks whether legislation will be brought in this session for the settlement of the lust claim of Prince Edward island. I must inform my honourable friend 19791100 with the westcln provinces] with a. view to a final settlement of; the point that Prince Edward Island _ the settlement with the a settlement with the Western Pro- ernlnent is discussing‘ this slderaticn. Hon. Ml‘. Hughes: Have I right to say a few words in reply? that I do not believe such legislation I Sggkgwhgwgfp there is failure or delay in reaching‘ i to effect some adjustment of the sit- l Sepalamy with Blwh 0i the Dlilvlhce-‘i Dominion Government i“ m” weil- "m?" ll ‘$971195 l0 l" owner and administrator of the IC",ll1iOl"i of Canada-is like a falnil adjustment with the Maritime Pro- sources, But, for a number of leafs consists of nine lnculbcrs, all settled "lllcf-i- elm "hill all 0f them “illl helthe Dominion Government acted ascn the family e. heard and their views taken into con- , lf- they were the absolute pygmy-r, in? me ‘amm- are 5 the prairie provinces. Thcy granted‘ where thcy are at a great; disadvan- ior the co-“i- tqge as compared with other mom- structiorl of railwaysfand acted gcil- bcrs of thc family, there must illev- iiably be adjustments in order that ilzc whole family may be contented llleilarge parcels of land mm- M" D““l“"""l= 1 hm mil erally as absolute owners in Ice of sure that my honourable friend has ‘ 3,95,, resourcgg A5 fay as 1 am con- h risht to relJly f0 Eh BMW" ml1~l° cerned, and in the light in which I and may share equally in the general MQTQR Oll. In Use the World Over PONDER THIS! l: the worlcPa ‘|{:;ding' motor anu acturers _ nitely spec‘ y ‘ Caflrol as the motor oil that rwill tzfi-o the best job of lubricating the motor! sel with the present Government of, House that tho aunt-sphere w.“ so I have a strong lln— agreeable that the Government feels can be forthcoming ‘m5 5553mm he‘ll1ression that the Province of Sas-' it has the consent of the provinces cause I understand that the Maritime kgwhewan m pfesgnflng 1,5 c353 hem w mowed ,,_- claims will l"? liken "P Only flllwfficlaimcd an absolute legal right l-3'Ci£illl15 at an c _ we5l9l7llits natural resources. Its represen- equitable as vvml Pmvmces- All MSW" lh the BfllTm-ltativcs argued that under the Brlt- lllCnlG that would appeal to all the “u” W011“ °l “"159 mean ‘l-lllllqish North America Act the Fcclelzil provinces. I am more infir". ~11 in suchasetlicmentlsscon tobereach-igovel-nment were trustees of those cquny mm, I am h, [he ma. a» 6d; hill ll (1095 hot lfillow l-hB-t ll i resources, but never owners. cvcn at pects of thc-cause, for "the lrtlcr klii- the time when that part of the coull- v eih, but the spirit givcth life,“ try was practically unsettled, vinces the Department of Financcmheregure they Qguld not have will ml "l l° “Wk and 9111165110"? l signed the resources to the province. to create the imp: There is a vast difference bctwlccn ' asking for anything to which we are uation with the Maritime Prflvlhillfi- l the position of a province that OWNS not entitled in equity and in jtusticc. All I can tell my honourable friend - its lands and other irsiurcl resources as an inlcgrnl putt of this Immin- is that, just as the Dominion Gov- E end the position o1 one which is lcn, lhilllellmerely a cestui que trust, with the and l the a setticrlclq of all (late, and to make as local adjust.- I wish only to repeat that we ae- - Prilico Edward Island do mi clrsli~c fiicn lhrll, \vc are ll‘ I 11:21: cilrr a hoznclga illustra- llflllfll ‘lion, iL sccnls to me that thc Dom- sidy of $144,000. lion. Mr. Casgrain: What l; the population now? Mr. Hughes: About 90,000. In 1912 Manitoba demanded that she be put on an equality with Sas- excrcised by the Province to the amount of $782,402.33, which reduc- ed the subsidy in lieu of public lands . to less than $8,000 a year, or say six cents per head 01 the population. ‘by the GOVETYImEhY-v hill I fillplmifliconstlue the law, I should never Ln? pros rily. lhfli by li-‘Bvé 0f lhe Him-SE he Fllfll’ , satisfied with any settlement as be- Tllcro is no doubt at all that thc put further questions, lfwccn the two westerly Prairie Pro- central provinces, Ontario and Que- Hon. Mr. Hughes: I have no tur-"vinces and the Dominion Govern- bec, have enormous natural resour- ther questions to put. " lnient with reference to the natural‘ ccs; and the same is true of British ircsourccs, that did not recognize the ‘_ Columbia and, tllougli perhaps to a gcilzral financial revision or re- fllliustilten; which we are sug- ng for the Maritime Prov- . -95. ment in this Chamber, to give me an answer, if he can today; if not then at the earliest convenient date, Prince Edward Island cannot wait and should not be asked l0 wait till even parliament, and all the other para-l, phernalia of government. Nova ECO-l tia also has a comparatively small; population, and it is not incroaslngq and if something is not, done with} Reviews’ 1027 Conference , ‘ Discrimination In 1882 Manitoba claimed and re- lzived a subsidy of $45,000 a year- iii lieu of public lands, which was more than 72 cents per head of her pop- ulation. Discrimination against Prince Edward Island was then started, and it has been continued and a; fre- quent intervals increased ever since, as I shall abundantly prove. In 1885 Manitoba claimed and was granted. in lieu of public lands, 9, subsidy of $100,000 sfyear, equal to more than 92 cents per head of her population. The discrimination sgainsy, Prince Edward Island was thus increased. In 1005 Saskatchewan and Alberta were formed into provinces. Each re- celved in lieu of public lands a sub- sidy of $375,000, 0r $1.50 per head 0h an assumed population of 250,000, but in the case of Alberta the assumed population was much greater than the actual. This subsidy was to be increased to these provinces as their population would increase. Each cf these provinces received also, in lieu of public lands, the capital sum o1 $458,750.‘ Both Manitoba and Prlfiffi Edward Island were now discrimin- ated against, but Prince Edward ls- land enormously so. In 1912, Manitoba demanded to be Pllt on an equity with Saskatchewan and Alberta, and hel- demand was granted, because it was manifestly lust: and, more than that, her h1- creased subsidies were dated back to i908. Has Benched A Crisis Prince Edward Inland mu remains Whorwlhs was in 1873, receiving six eenio per heed of her population, it would be hard to find in the history of the modern ‘world a more pro- nounced example of discrimination, and the results are whet mlshi. h!" been expected. Prince Edward ls- land has now reached whet mllht be termed nlmolt o crisis in her history. Notwithstanding economy ln every "Inert-ment of the Government eer- vliw. lllil the levying of all the lohl taxation the people can bear, we oil- IM agile ends meet. We are lhlhl flame into am m the time, and the out yobs- our total eiuivliillfli" Iloeedbd our Mel revenue by nearly $800,000. This is a lerlolu mat-w‘ for so mall a provisos, and if the Dominion were in Q similar financial WIN“: it would mean a deficit of ‘over can hundred millions of dollars. '; ‘lfopulatlon omens; ‘ ll dwmclihl Ill thf katcilcwan and Alberta. and, in or- dcr tha‘ her equality might be real, that her additional subsidy be dated back. Her demand was granted and the principle of dating back to make equality absolute was then establish- ed. 1*. cannot be denied to Prince Edward Island now. From 1882 to 1885 Manitoba re- ceived 60 cents per head of popula- lion more than Prince Edward Is- land received. This would mean for ihethree ycars a capital sum of $198,000. From i885 to i905 Manl- toba received 86 cents per head of population more than Prince Edward Island received. This would mean for these twenty years a capital sum of $1,720,000, From i905 to the present year, Saskatchewan and Alberta have been receiving $1.44 per head of population more than Prince Ed- ward Island has received. This would mean for these twenty-four years a capital sum of $3,456,000, or a total capital slun of $5,374,000. which at 5 per cont interest would yisld an additional subsidy c1 268.700. This 268,700 would b0 the l’ Erect oil the ll‘- rears, and the $150,000 we are en- titled to from this date forward would make our future subsidy, in lieu of public lands, $418,700 a. year. Furthermore, when the Prillrl! Provlnccs get their natural resour- ccs, if they retain the subsidies as well, we shall be entitled to a Pl?- ment. in proportion to our popula- Lion, upon thc fair estimated value of these resources, This ma)’ IP09" large to some, but I submit that noth- lng less will put us'ul1°l1 an equality with the other landless provinces. Additional Claims In addition t0 her claims ls onc of the landless provinces. Prince Ed- ward Island has claims which are p6- clairns in common with NOV! 500"!- 511d New Brunswick, whcih were rec- ognized by the Duncan Commission when it recomnlendedjnterlm lily- ments of 8125.000. 8600-099 w‘! $375" 000 till final adjustments would be made. The common claims must of com-Se be pressed in common and adjusted in mmon, but our 0W1! chll-hs must-be kept entirely HW- Qt,’ pnd uplft. It has b8“ "Ira" ed that we merge all our claims Fm‘. those of Nova Bcotis and Ne" Brunswick and 9"?" l" l “mm” ettlement. I do not thin! worse ad- vioecould be xiv-n. m! I he!» It Wm no; Isa-followed. To ml! i9 the 0mm, 4,; "hm Edward Island that have nothing at all in common with cullnrly her own. and Ihe his lll° . next year. Island Railway Hon. J. P. B. Casgraln: Honourable gentlemen, we have been invited to abk questions. The address tdwhich we have just listened has been very interesting, but those who are famil- iar with Prince Edward Island know there is perhaps no other pare oi Canada where the people are more happy and prosperous. I believe there are no paupers on that island; all the inhabitants are in comfortable choumsta , and when the potato crops are good the people do very well. The province is the home of the silver fox industry, out of which much money is being made, and tn the whole I think the people down there are well of! now. The whole country is interested in this matter. There is in Prince Edward Island a railway some 120 miles in length. which I believe is going to be ex‘- tended. I tend that railway was not. built at the expense of the province. " Hon. Mr. Hughes: The honourable gentleman is quite mistaken in that. Hon. Mr. Casgrain: Did the prov- ince pay for the railway? Hon. Mr. Hughes: We paid for the railway when we entered Confeder- ation. We were credited with our share of the national debt and deb- ited with our own debt and also with the cost of the railway. Hon. Mr. Casgl-ain: How many miles in length was the railway in Prince Edward Island at that time? Hols-Mr. Hughes: The cost was about 83,250,000. g Hon. Mr. Cugrain: _I-Iow many miles were there then? _ Hon. Mr. Hughes: Not as many i! there are now. ' Hon. Mr. Casgraln: It was a nar- row geugeroed, about three feet six inches, with about iii-pound rails. I am not against Prince Edward Is- land, bntll‘ make time remarks merely that the House may under- stand the situation. I believe that a}, the time _of confederation, the province was ‘allowed $280,000 for whatever mileage the railway had. Hon. Mr. Hughes: It was debited. Suggest Government Control Vilon. Mr. Gllflllll Yes. And there is a very cxpedeivs ferry that ls robs running between the mainland pad Prince Edward Island at co.- ciderebii cost. and I do‘ not think the Inland is celled upon to contri- bute anything tn that service. It was lmderitood at the time of. Confed- eration that there would be steam the coal and steel industries down] there the population will decreasel still further. In New Brunswick the‘ population is increasing somewhatl‘ because some of my own country- men ilve there, and they mnaufac-y ture their own ‘immigration year in! and year out. Now, in all seriousness, honourable: gentlemen, I do not believe that the people of Prince Edward Island arel badly treated. Thcy have four sen-i ators to represent 88,000 people, and, they have an equal number of mom-l bers of the House of Comnlons- in, fact, they have one member of Pur-, liamenf more than they are cntitledi to according to the last for them to consider joining with Nova Scotla, and perhaps New Bruns- wick too, to make one good, solid province? DccrlEa Prohibition The honourable gentleman savs the population of Prince Edward Is- land is not increasing-that the peo- are leaving because of prohibition: they want to go whore they can en- joy full liberty, and the other good things or this world. I remember when there were 100.000 people ln that province. My proposal to the honourable gentleman would be that he should suggest go his Governnlcnl. first, that they adopt liquor control. which seems to be the salvation of the revenues of some of the prov- inces, and then that they consider the advisability of annexation with Nova Scotla, or with New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. In that way I think they might find a remedy, Hon. Raoul Dandurand: Honourable gentlemen, I do not intend to enter into the merits of the claim of Prince Edward Island to a larger subsidy. I desire simply to examine into the history of the latter years. I find at page 18 of the Report of the Royal Commission on Maritime Claims a statement concerning the special case submitted to the Com- missioners by the Government of Prince Edward Island. I shall read it to this Chamber, and it will be seen that many of the points made by my honourable friend (i-ion. Mr. Hughes) were submitted g0 that Com- mission. The reporf, says: Prince Edward Island joined Confederation in i873. The pro- vince never had Crown lands in the general meaning of the term. Its land were held by proprietors who had received them in grant from the British Crown. and who lee-led them to census.’ Nevertheless, if they have come to‘, the end of their tether, is it not timol pie are leaving. A good many of them , Honourable members of friend has recalled, that as a result cl‘ the findings of this Royal Conl- mission interim or provisional pay- ments were made of $875,000 to Nova Scotis, $600,000 to NewBruns- wick. and $125,000 to Prince Edlvard Island. In viéw of the interest that all the provinces of Canada had'in the financial arrangements made a: the time of Confederation, or later, when other provinces entered the Union, it was deemed necessary that there should be a consultation of the financial rearrangement suggested by this Commission and a conference took place. My honourable friend seems to think that no very great advantage was- obtained from that conference by any of the provinces. more especially by Prince Edward Is- land. Well I attended the confer- ence, and, with all due respect, I be- lieve my honourable friend is in er- ror. Onc of the results has been that the Federal Government has had greater freedom of action in approaching the discussion and soili- tion of this problem. The Federal Government meets the provinces, if no; through offlcial delegates coming to Ottawa, through members of thc House of Commons and members o! this Chamber. I remember that Bi previous conferences, when a claim was made by one province for an in- creased subsidy. the representatives of the other provinces immediately asked themselves whether the finan- lal undertaking of i867 was not be- ing distllrbed, or whether, as a re- sult of such a request or demand be- ing granted, they would not be en- titled to a proportionate increase. Tilers seemed to be s, desire to ad- here as closely as possible to the uact of 1867, which was extended to the other provinces that later on came into Confederation. But what took place at the lasffConference? It was with considerable satisfac- tion that I noticed e difference in the atmosphere.- Apparently Canada had grown and developed, and felt that it was in a much stronger posi- tion,‘ and could take-a more liberal view of these questions. The two great provinces of Ontario and Que- bec‘ were represented by their Prime vllnistera, who rose andsaid that they were not averse to-the 0th!!! provinces obtaining the redress of their grievances. and even securing gen- erous greatment, and both added that they would not on that score blllm anything by way of compensation. That is something which my holl- ourable friend has not noticed, and which inures, and will inure, tn the material advantage of the other this‘ Chanlbcr know, and my honourable‘. Westerners Argument Hon. W. B.. ivillouzhby: Honour- i to have all ad able ‘gentlemen, I desire to make avshlp, what. the Provinces have few brief remarks in reference to the i ceivcd proprietorship of the province. if we lessor elstart with that foundation and arc ccs. from the Dominion Govern- case so very admirably presented by I ment by way of subsidy or other- the honourable Prince Edward Island (Hon. gentleman fromylse in return fol the natural re- M1". sources b a matter that can be de- proportionately, in our common her- itage. Hughes). I. as a. Westerrler, do not ' termined by a Commission. want to be clamorous at all times I do not want to say more than for what we ill Saskatchewan and Al- l that now, because I think that tou- berta bclieve to be our legal and; tative negotiations of some sort are constitutional rights. l; is admittedi still in progress between the Saskat- by all in the West that the position ' chewan and ments. At any rate. they have 112:1 some communications and "mcctingsa he founcls part It may be they are waiting the tcr- nnnzvly, I men; owns of Manitoba is not quite the same o5 l that or the other two provinces. Manitoba's position is now beingill- quired into by a Commission, and I: would not attempt-to comment upon; it. particularly as both the local and; the Dominion governments are rep-l i resented by men who are abundantly able to deal with the situation. the Fcdcrcl Govc':ll-_ mination of the Manitoba case. mercly want to make clear lilat w the proper and Alberta. will have something to say if the Federal Government take , would not lvca lithe ‘position that they are owner". all Because the territory is a little far} of the natural resources. V afield and there may‘ bcsolne who are not familiar with the exact, posi- gentlemen that we do not at all rec- ognize thc legal proprietorship of thc Dominion Government in the nat- ural resources of those provinces, We think that when those provinces were formed there was a violation o: ; the spirit of the constitution, which; never contemplated the creation oii not position: landless provinces. was maintained in this House by some l Question By Senator MacArthur tion that we in Saskatchewan andi Alberta take, I may tell honourable}: Hon. Mr. MacArthur: I should like eluding Prlr ., to ask the honourable gcntlclnan from Moose Jaw (Hon. Ml‘. Wlliouhbyi if he, or the people generally in thc I for iWest, consider the Maritime Pro"- lnces have any equity in either the Ccnfcricrillioll as (lul y)f()\'i1\l"r‘$ of Onintlrl fl!‘f‘l alienated or unallcnated lands of the West? Hon. Mr. Willoughhy: None whal- ever in law, in my opinion. Hon. Mr. Hughes: Perhaps I dlri mu" fol" iii-ll of the most eminent members of the ‘ not make my position as cicar as l Liberal party of the time. Since then? the investigations of those who have; ground. not as a legal argument made a study of the legal question‘ nil, but on the broad question lake wished to make it. I - of have carried the argument ‘veiy l equity, that when Prince Edward ls- much further: it is now maintained f land was allowed anything In lieu of that we in those two Prairie Prov-i inces have been and are the legal‘ owners of the natural resources inipayment on that acco those provinces, I am speaking how‘ urully follows that w more particularly of Alberto, andlsaskatcirewan and Alb: Saskatchewan, because we are null public lands. were granted embarrassed by a special Act of they Imperial Government, as Manitoba is. The Acts depriving us of our nat- ural resources are no; Acts of thel Imperial Government at all, and we maintain that it was not within the competen y of this Parliament at any time to deprive us of rlglvs that», we acquired under the British North America Act. I am not gonig to dwell on this subject. I referred to it here once or twice before. in a V!!!‘ brief way. In two of the ‘Prairie Provinces, the Fwo westerly onewnegotlations on uleee matters are-either in progress or pending. Alberta apparently has deferred further action until ‘the nnlfingrof the» commission dealing with the cue of Manitoba arcan- public uni and it nat- based on population, Prince Island should have been treated fill‘ lllilfi similar terms. That SPF-tears to m0 to be so elementary in equity that it does not need argument, With respect to the the report of the Duncan Comm slon. my leading of that is thee tho amount of $125,000 a year that, Prince Edward Island receives was for claims similar to those advanced by Nova Scott: and New Brunswick. It is one of the interim pgyments for the Provinces, though Prince Edward Is- , land was of course entitled to lesfi than the others; but that has noth- ““.‘.‘.;““..‘.“ on. J. P. MlLLA irlg whatever in do with the claim l have presented to the House today! i extent, of the Prairie Provin- Thcse provinces thereby derive justmen; gs to tTiLSiCo- an immense advantage over others rc- lhat are loss izlvnilrahlyl endowed, It is not charit_y at all on thc part of the ofher prnvitlrcs to allow Prince Edvmrd lslanll to share with them- llon. “r, “illoughby: unlit to c-"cntc thc impression that 1 n; thc position taken by my honourable fricnli illon. Mr. Hughesl or necessarily; adverse to it; but cannot admit tho prclnises on which am crit that the Dominion Govern: ri the resources of the ' ~ hcn Prairie Provinces. and, having made time comes Saskatchewan an allowance in lieu of thcm- ,3»; Hon. Mr. Hughes: In my view, that ken my argument at Not npllfhffi To lslnnll Claims the Dominion. I have no tiouhi did not rcrclve as l; Qlllll; nmst ha o hr- ~ ll: ltopcs that the his. lllc-"rcnscrl prospclflt). scntimcnt is' rellccicli, :1 some ex- icni. in the nlipoinilncllt by the pa‘ I llnion Government of the Dulicap issloli l bclicvn the people bi .1 approved cf’ the finding 0| hen Manitoba, that (Jnmmission. N» complaint thul rte, in lieu of the Cfimliilinlw- subsldles, has comi- in my notice; lllf‘ only Edward criticism srrms in br- that, ihl-ir llml" are not bring fully implement Throughout ihc wlinle cou_ l l believe, there is a fooling Hm 1 recommcndaiiolu of gtglemgnt I sfon should 1n- carrled out, Ccrtai quoted by the honourable leader from the West is not orliosin: that If lg- Husk the lsonourable gcnik-nmn to think that 1 valve any oppositinr I to the must generous iruatlr.cnt_,\ha.',, _cln be given to Prince Elllvlfd ‘y l land. l . . Hon. Mr. Hughes: I hope l did h“ lsay anything that. ilnpi common claims of the three Maritime i so. lands there was established } ll the principle that ii. was entitled in Comm was fro goncrnui "ml-Wink the population of every other h; m; Dominion ls in- the china of the other Maritime m- communication. There bu been mum m m: m‘ lemma. ----,,,,,,, r~»-=--i-=-~* ~-- "r" "" "" "s... l..." m tf,,“.‘.°'""“ »;~;,-,,-.=.».»-...y: c.:;"=.:=;.:".l."*::...""".. 222.2? cars’. ::":.:::::":..:.-.. ..:..::.-.:."::.::::::::.":..::..::..:‘ :2; ' wee - i overnmea - ‘ r - - . a u m‘ ‘:§,ls'::n::i°y: m: Manitoba lama demanded because the area of the province I lead from the proprietors and to ment, if it is not already doing so. ‘munioation with the ' Federal Ciov- therefore I know of what took pllcc 00038-9 l» Ill-lo - rather restricted. ls my be econ Hi1 It out-fill" "i “m” ‘P’ will examine into the rendiustmeilt eminent, but. I am not aware what. there only from whet I have read. _ _ I was very much pleased to hear Cornet Queen and Rlllgmgnfl m, extension of her boundaries and equal to that Alberta i proximate three-fifth: of the fromiiumep. mnonomsu friend m“ ‘allow, mm m, m,” 0B- lvliglli w! the mount»? pram before Confederation. ei- .. 4 if any, negotiations are going on at the present time, aor ilm I in coun- "o be made: and at the present time the Dominion Government is incon- froln my honourable leader in this gm. ".4" . . N . \ financial treatment which Bllhetchflllh VIM