1 vu v APRIL 1934 'rim cul\1u.ofr'rETowN cu race = .. _... ___, ==_. _=.__-_,__ _‘=_, , Government Commended For Increasing Grants 1To The Three Hospitals __________i, Opposition Members Find Little To Criticise, And Much To Commend, In MacMillan Government’s Health And Educational Activities-Rustico Lib- eral Member Set Right As To Relief Expenditures. 'Hia activities of the Provincial Department of Health and Edua- iion, headed by Premier llaoldillan, gave little scope for Opposition criticism when the estimates for tba department came up for com- mittee reading in the legislature last week. There was general com- mendstion of the manner in which this department has been conduct- ed, the Governments contribution gf an additional grant of 81,000 tc each of the three hospitals being avvrcved unanimously. On the subject of the Govern- men.t'| distribution I unemploy- ment r¢lief Mr. B. W. Le.Page's criticism was shown by Hon. Mr. Sharp and Mr. Bethune to be based on erroneous information. Opposition criticism was concen- trated chiefly on finances under the item of Interest. It was at this point, after Messrs. lfclntyre. T. A. Campbell and Lea had spoken, that llr. W. li. Dennis inadvertently gave his collehilles away by sug- gesting that the House "forget pol- itics for a while." When the Education estimates ($848300) came up for discussion Mr. lii’cInt-YN asked why the in- lease over last years figures. Premier Maclifillan explained that there was an addition of five teachers to the teaching staff. There was also increase in suppls- ments and in first class salaries, as well og 87,500 set aside for teachers' pensions. Mr. Mclntyre said he had been criticised, while in office, for in- curring travelling expenses of 8300 in going to Regina. lie cited trav- elling expenses incurred by the present Premier on a mission to Ottawa, and claimed that there was more ground for criticising 'this it-cm than for the criticism to which he had been subjected ls Minister O Regina conference. Premier MacMillan re lied that D he had no knowledge of ever hav-' ln! questioned the travelling ex- P0180-I Of any member ofthe Gov- emment. B0 far as his expgngq 1,0 Ottawa were concerned, he was me IOIDC to offer any explanation. If the public did not consider his services worth the travelling ax- penses, they would have to get someone else to perform the duty. Mr. Caanpbelra Cnntentlcn Mr. T. L Campbell said that while it was the duty of the Oppo- sition to criticise, he could oom. mend the action of the Depart- ment of Education and of the Min- ister, who was entitled to a good deal of credit, both in regard to the Carnegie endowment for Prince of Wales College. and the Provin- cial library demonstration which has been initiated with funds ob- tained from the Carnegie Founda- tion. The Premier in this depart- ment has shown a. good deal of energy and ability, At the same time Mr. Campbell maintained it was misleading to compare br; |7- ing these grants to the Pr0\'i111:e with what tha Liberals had done in obtaining new revenue under the Dcmiciled Companies Act. The Premier had said that the Camegie [rants were available to the Prov- inca for a number of years but Mr. Campbelrs information was to the effect that while large educational centers have had the facilities of1 the Carnegie °°fP0¥ltion open to them for some years, these xar-_ tlcuiar grants were made available to the smaller centres only in the year 1082. T'he grants in question, he maintained. were not available darlngthetei-mol office of the Lea Government. Moreover, he contended that they were grants to 1 'all the Provinces" whereas the domiciled companies tax was c'/- talned in competition with all the Provinces. ltr. Dennis thought the Mlnhter “rise to hh feet and give Q Iious talk on education." He understood that 300 teachers from the Normal School at that time there era without srilgoia u @§.1i11§§i*§1=aan 'g iieiiétriii-iii E s. ~ §=§g.\~= .i g gr so a surplus BN est-ion ia, what are and women going something radi- to be done to col>0 situation. With superannuation fund. objected to the pl!- fr administering this understood the man neslvas a valueof present hgainesefuriedtme Prmlerihcliliahmidthsreia aodeubtthaatbepldaaaioosare over-¢awded.lsiastar1cod ‘1$El‘?'li ‘i11f11§11 $115.11: liliiliiiir 1113.5 iii' érég §§.§ gi , mmethan 1laatyear?" 1 Premier llacallllanz isafewmore.Itisala Inregardtoadminlstra on uati work invo ves not ia paid by thu Governmen deducting the amounts that are paid into mg fund twice a year, and keeping the account of these moneys, that make the additional work. “We know.” the Prnnier continu- ed. "that Education is a difficult I1l'°blem. The cost is advancing Year after year. Over some of it we have no control. We cannot control, for example, the output of first-class teachers, or the amount of supplements that the people of this Province will vote. All that we can say is that the number of pu- pils in the Prince of Wales College this year is an indication of the de- sire of the people of this Province to give their sons and daughters the very best education possible. |Aftcr all. I think it is money well 'spent. We are hopeful that we will get valuable service out of the new professor of Sociology and Econ- omics. and that as he becomes ac- iquainted in thu Province ws can Isend him outfthrough the country to deal with farmers' clubs and those other meeting that are tak- ing such a hold on our people now. Our sister province oi Nova Scotia iclaims to be making successful ef- ifons along the line of agricultur- al co-operation, and thg some should be quite possible in Prince Edward Island. I ieel that as time gom on we will get the benefit, ag- riculturally, of the Camegie grant which has been obtained for the E8 is .gg- get _ 55” Corrects Mr. Campbell °'I am not claiming credit at all in getting this Carnegie grant." Premier MacMillan continued. “We will say that the money has been obtained, that it is here, and it is invested and is doing good. Prob- ably we had better forget whether there were opportunities before. We know that Newfoundland obtained a grant for their College many years befoie this, and we are ex- actly ln_ the same situation. It was on mar fact that 1 was basing my remarks when I said that the op- portunity existed." Mr. Lea said he was pleased that the Premier had changed his at- titude on education. In emphasiz- ing the value of farm education he was now following along Mr. I.a:a’s line of reasoning. “I have always maintained," he said, “that the money that we have spent at Prince of Wales College to fit boys to go to the universities and into the profemlons, at a considerable cost to this Province, was educating Lhem to gs to the other Provinces or the United states, to be pro- ducers there." He subnNted that the Bell Government was “ten years in advance" of the Govern- ment today in establishing the Technical Bchool. All the cost of that institution to the Province had been 861000, and if the school had been operating for the last ten years the students would now be on the farms, rendering splendid service. While he had sympathy for the men who are lmown as poor farmers, their situation was usually due to the fact that they have been following wrong methods of agriculture, which it was the aim or scientific agricultural training to correct. Mr. Les cited with approval the remarks made by Bir Andrew Kac- phail at the commencement exer- cises of the Prince Edward Island _ Library Institute in Prince of Walq College hall last summer. to the effect that we have bam edu- cating our children away from the handicrafts and trades. lwggssh laid Allan i.°§§ 1255512 , 51112115 _ Pbdaraldovernmentla 3taaley.ol Ixlhouaie University. asaapsmmg|atiafa&mwitbtba establlshmsa the lnnmlaide 1111111111131 ii§§§§i§1l§;*` t1i‘.1i"iri‘ iialrrrllrfrl 1 nwxzna _ ‘ iii E .> 112 il: 3% is i 1 1 unchanged, .arg ae? gill §`i1§ -in rigri Elsie i $1 commercial $35 for Charlottetown students and $30 for those from outside the city. Mr. 'i‘. A. Campbell expressed ap- proval of the principle. It was just a question where the amount of fees should be fixed, and whether tho amount of revenue derived from the third and fourth years, justifies such a high rate of fees. Perhaps more revenue would be collected if the scale were a little lower. This question, however, could best be determined over a period 0( YQ!-rs. ` Premier Macmillan: ‘That is the point. As time gom on, I think it will be capable of adjustment." Mr. Dennis said the vast major- ity of teachers throughout the Province are not satisfied with the method of deducting the amount from their salaries to carry on the superannuation fund. Some of them had admitted to him that they voted for the measure, but did not know what they were doing at the time. The item carried. PUBLIC HEALTH 1 Discussing the estimate for Pub- llc Health ($32,000) Mr. LcPage said he realized that the Depart- ment had been very well looked af- ter. This was something on which he could sincerely commend the Govemment. He had beenintereet- ed in inaugurating the Health De- partment under the last Govern- ment. He had also been chairman of the sanatorilun Committee when the Liberals were in power. “While the Banatcrium is not as large as f/¢l»¢h-1113 01 8°°101°€Y Ind 600110111- ‘ we would like to see it, neverthe- ef Public Works in attending the. ics in this connection. less, with the education we are get- ting through that institution, it ought to better the condition of those people very much.” lm-. Le- Psge said. He concurred in the need of more money being granted to the Hospitals: in fact he did not think they are yet receiving sufficient. He did not think it will be long before more money well have to be spent by the Govern- ment in assisting both the Senat- oriuln and the different hospitals. There are a great many patients unable to PHY. and the hospitals are taking care of them. "We shall have to find the money, even ii’ we have to curtail our public works," he believed. Suggests Health Tax Mr. Lea: "Does my hon. friend ever consider raising a health tax _a very important thing?" Premier MacMillan: "It will come to that eventually." Mk. Lea: "It is just getting to this point, that the hvspitals are compelled to raise their rates on those unfortunatm who go to hos- pital. If they raise their rates on the paying patients to make rev- enue and expenditure meet, they are taxing the few to assist the many who cannot pay. If it is true that simost so per cent who enter a hospital are non-paying patients, then it means that the other 50 per cant are shouiderlng this hur- den very largely. My reasoning along that line always was that the healthy fellows. who have never had to go to hospital. should be taxed." I-Ia thought this matter should be given "greater considera- tion" by the Minister of Health. The Minister, Mr. Lea believed, was exceptionally well qualified for his position, and this was his "80ld¢l\ npportimity" to provide for the care of the poor, the sick and the imane. Hospital Grants Increased Premier Manbflllan pointed out that tha Government has increased the hospital grmts by fifty per cent. .He wished it was possible at thistimetodommetowardsfln- anoing these vitally necessary in- stitutions. The posltiq cf om' hos- pitals is s dsplorabls one. In other provinces they receive municipal as well as provincial assistance. All they were formerly receiving in thu province -was $2.000. IM We 0°" ernment has increased tha grant to each hospital to $8.617. "I the Premier said. “that succauful in getting alms reallmd at Ot- Duncan Commis- far as I am iiigiiiizgiiilgiiiiiiga, -1 ° .1 sei .i§1;,..‘ E”§§§g¥E§§§ §' E5: slaga Hzgigaaigé 15111111;-.iiiifi .. 111111"-1.11211. dmraasim. 'It has never hem my '¥==:hulmn:wsuua‘ would you erpeotf' (laughter), The item carried. Oveakias on the item ~mterest"' (Bank inherit, $10,000. Loan inter-| Ml. sumo. psneauau. t1o'1,ooo> Mr. llnlntyre said this was an ln. CYNDI 0! 014.400 over last year. The Iiibnak. he said, had been accused U 10"!!! an overdraft at the Bank of a million dollars. The Conserv- ativm have sdll $546,000 of an °V°¥41’lf¢. acoordilm to the Public Accounts. If that be the case, the Conservatives have only paid 011 $454,000 of the Liberd overdraft, and to do so they borrowed $1,110,- 000. In the past two years they had borrowed 81,400,011. and they had added to that 82511110, plus inter- est. which makes 8205.000 or there- shouts. In all Mr. llclntyre figured the Conservatives had borrowed 81,067,000. 'I‘hey say that was to pay off the Liberal ovedraft oi Ol.- 000,00) and build Prince of Wales College and Paloonwood Hospital. Deduoting what they paid on the overdraft would leave 81,212,560. The combined cost ei' Palconwood and Prince of Wales College war. $483,0w, which would leave $719,- 468. This, he maintained, was the. cause of the interest charges going UP. Mr. T. A. Campbell sald that one of the charges against the Lmsrals was that they had nearly doubled, the interest rata, from $77,000 to $140,000. This criticism had nott been correct, but xmder this Gov- emment, he maintained, the inter- est charge has increased iromf $140,000 to 8222.000. The moneyi spent, over $700,000 of it borrowed, had been incurred on “really ordin- ary account.” The alarming fact was that the increase in interest was being piled up notwithstand- ing that capital expenditure is very rapidly decreasing in proportion to -the ordinary expenditure. Mr.~ Campbell figured that the total ordinary expenditure, including sinking funds, was $892,990 in 1928; $908,944.63 in 1929; $1,27'l,400.B5 in 1932; and $1,392,2'15.'i0 in 1933. These figures represented ordinary expenditure for the first two years, of Liberal and Conservative rule respectively. Road Machhlvry Umllted I-Ion. Mr. McPhee: “Are the road machine purchases included in the ordinary expenditine for the years you menti1m?" Mr. Campbell: "I am just taking them from the Public Accounts." Hon. Mr. McPhee; “Will the hon. member just answer the question. Are the road machine expenditures in the figures for the years he has given us?" Mr. Campbell: “I don`t think they are included.” He maintained that in any event the comparison showed an ordinary larger expend- iture under the Conservatives. Hon. Mr. MacPhee: "Might I ask another question? Is the mainten- ance of the Police included in the figures my hon. friend has given?" Mr. Lea: "That is not capital ex- pendlture." Mr. Campbell: "I imagine the maintenance of Police is included. I am just taking the figurm as they appear in the summary, from the Public Accounts." Hon. Mr. MacPhee: "We want to know what they mean." Mr. Campbell said there was gi Provincial Police in 1928 and 19 . There were three or four motor policemen. and their expenditures are included. A few trivial items of this kind did not make up the difference, because the increase was nearly $1,000,000 between the two periods compared. He was prepared to admit that there might be dl- vergencies between the total ex- penditure andthe ordinary. 'Pne total expenditures for 1928 and 1929. he said, were 82316222, whereas in the first two corres- ponding years of this Government they amounted to 33.710389. Calculating the gross increase in liabilities, Mr. Campbell found that in 1928 and 1020 the to1al,increase in liabilities was $369,185.92, where- as in 1932 and 1933 the increase in liabilities had risen to $560,385.36. Of the Liberal expenditure in 1928 and 1029, capital expenditure com- prised $48’1,361,5B. In 1032 and 1933. he said. the Conservative capital expenditure (excluding Falconwood and Prince of Wales College) had drlipped 90 $138,752.98. The caliltal expenditure on Prince of Waiver College in 1032 was $250,306.93. and in 1938, $137,721.95. 0|' a tot'ti nf $387,927.88. Dedueting the insur- ance on the old building of S100.- 000. there is a balance of $127,911.88. In regard to Palconwood. the capi- tal expenditure claimed by the Government is $175,510.34. Deduct- ing the insurance of $91,000. there is a balance d 870,016.04. Allowing 35.000 for the part of the archilect's plans actually used in the recon- struction to date there is an amount of over £5,000 D014 '-0 01° Falconwood architect which cannot now be cloned as cwlt-ll 2190114- itun. Deducting tht from the $78.- 000, there remains $50,000 which has been applied to capital expand- lture in Palconwood reconstruction. Adding this Pina Prince of Walel Oollqo amount left a total of $111,081! which has been capital!! expanded ln the 1-econstniction of these two institutions. Adding this amount to the other capital ei- ipiditurg o_g the Cmservatfve Gov- ernment for the past two yeerl. IB. oampeeu calculated un grand eo- tal of $i10.@l capital expendit- ure for the past two yean as earn- .bl espifally R- in their cof- Qi E11 ii* fosaasaesasofmr _ Prmiiar I|h@llar\: 'That wr-1 not eamtal expenditure: it was cal! for gravel, meet ef lt." , W. Lea: 'What about the road llwllilsf” . llcfntyrez 'What about eul- vrris and Hillel?" hlle capital expenditure has been eadily decreasing under the Cm at - servatlves, the. total expenditure l1l'l‘lllS'l‘ has been golngsteedllyup andthe liabilities have risen from 8300000 to $509,000. Mr. Allen said the Dominion Government had given 1nil.1ios'n in loans to the Western Provinces and the Canadian Pacific Railway, and he believed this Province could have received a and a quarter for a short per cent, whi today at four an That would have made in interest rates or |12 or a total of 8187.500 over a period of fifteen years. Hon. Mr. Sharp: "You guna that the Federal Government was making a gift to the Western Provinces?" Mr. Allen: 'Under the unem- ployment scheme they made mm; of hundreds of thousands of dol- lars, for which they will never get any return." Hon. Mr. Sharp: "rho Federal Oovemment loaned to the four Western Provinces which the Western Provinces used in their expenditure for unemploy- ment relief; but that 842,000,000 is to be paid back the same 'as any other loan.” Mr, Allen: "We didn’t get a cent along that line.” Hon. Mr. Sharp: "We could bor- row as cheaply on.the market." Mir. Alien maintained that the Govcmment had not done this, and that in making the bond is- sue they had nm called for tenders. Mr. McIntyre said there must have been a commission on these bonds. The Government did not say who got the commission, but they had asked him on different Owasions who rot the wnunisiicn on the 8100.000 road machinery which they said he had bought over the telephone. Did the Government telephone their order to Toronto? 5' £51 re 1 - iliirii Cites N. S. Imue Premier MacMillan: “How ws;-¢ thc last Nova Scotia bonds sold?" M11 MCID¢YI‘€I "I don`t know. I am not dealing with Nova Scotia. I am dealing with this Govern- ment." Mr. LePage could not understand why the debt, both federal and pro- vincial. is not refunded. This would save the Province about $40,000 or $50,000. No effurt had been made in this connection, he maintained, because the “big interts" in Can- ada have these .bonds and are con- trolling Parliament. The Province might refund its bonds at 4% per cent interest without the aid of the Dominion at all. M.r. Lea thought it should be re- duced to five per cent; that was all that was charged in 1931. ‘Tnrgetthig Politics" Mr, Dennis: “F‘orgetti.ng party politics for a rmment, Mr. Chair- man-." (Conservative laughter). palgn of education put on by the them to loan their money to the Government rather than to the banks. Give them to understand that they can get s higher rate of interest, than they are getting from the Banks. Then we will be fin- ancing the peopie`.s business with the people's money." The trouble, he thought, was that the banks "have that peculiar faculty of mak- ing us all believe that we cannot get along without them." Mr. T. A. Campbell said it had been contended that the late Gov- emment should have funded the overdraft. Against this he argued that the Conservative Govemment of Nova. Scotia had funded, in Sep- tember, 1032, an overdraft which had been carried by the banks from March, 1931. If the Lea Gov- emment was negligent in not f1md- ing the million dollar ovedraft in the early summer of 1931, what about the Nova Scotia Govemmrwt which allowed a two million dollar overdraft to remain in the banks until the fall ’f 1932? Mr. Allen asked what the interest rate was on short loans?" Premier MacMillan: "Pour per rent." Mr. Allen believed if the public knrw they could lend money to the Province at fifty per cent higher interest rate than they were receiv- ing from the savings banks, it would make a good appeal. The item carried. Coenmensh Premiefs Efforts On the sub_\*ct of Legislative Grants ($46,050) 1/[r.A1len referred to the good work which the Prem- ier had done in obtaining a reduc- tion in motor ca.r rates on the Car Ferry during the summer season last year. Unfortmitely the old Ur. !»ePae» doubted lf the amount estimated for would be mf- flrlant. smlesa cond’t.ions improved materially lnplr/~.ant, he said. lim with large fmltiea to support were getting only £2.00 per week. P1mh&allha:'weha1i Mr. Les: "What interest is now H°“- Mr' Sharp replied that being paid on the overdraft at the 3391150-191_ md been 'xpended to fe Arc S . Bank? Prmu" Mmummz ..1,.|ve md Mr. LePage: "Do I understand °ne_qu,_nn-_-1 that this money will be expended "I say forgetting party politics for 3 mDment_ there should be 3 cam_ has reference to the work that was; government to mow our peopye he claims that a sufficient amount t t the dc- the big advantage it would be to ggrvrrilrligierlx/oo“i'?swl1\lle€sll]rElli1ro(i?her peg- projects built in North Rustiro ple received it who might very well Whifh 11111 116 DBTSOUS OD the D211- have done without relief money. YOU. Rnd mY h011~ f1'1l’Hf1 £015 up early On certain projects we have the re- H-Wi Salfs that it WHS "-”1bS0ll110lV moval of clay, cutting bushes, Worth1ess."I consider, on the con- smvcumg em In the work done ag trarv, that the money was very well . L_, _ _ _ _ §0",fu°° it W” not possible M wr? sp;/ir. Lerage compiaim-<1 111111 he }`}f..".1.v.'.f.'"1.i`.l5¥"'1'1...".f .1.f`.,',`§. """' a shovel to work wltl-1.to be em- had Put B ClU0S1_l0r\ On the 0rd=_‘r __\\_'_111~11r_.~1..1»~`.'| 1111--~111» .1 fi 1/. in 1,0 k paper in connr'1‘t1o11 with this v.~r1r.<_ \'__“_'_:' R__f_;"_hN__:':_f11_i;i~\_1_sT f__u_\_: in conjunction with certain peop.e and th" "MW" had mft indlcffifd -\. 11. 1_'.I,.,,, .Jr -....1 .`,..,,,.,. who mmm mm ,_ hm-se and cm-gy that there was oihrr uorio b<~<.d.s 1-11.1111:-il in 11 f1»~.111..\ ..r gg M or A team of horses and Wagon in what was_rlonc on thc bmrli. llc 1--i-»--_ did not wish to cr1t‘<"sf~ 11-<11-k that to me pomt of dismbutmn on me was of benefit; but the 1~.~.1<‘l1_ he md; id R1 claimed, had been "<1.~.\11\'.1~:l." lic rate was restored in the Fall. and trlbutlon might be made Of tht' Clay it ls difficult to reconcile people to or gravel that was hauled. Oiheié- a return to the higher rate. He wise, however. We ha" _ffifd 0 ' ‘ . ~~ » ‘_ 1 _ understood a further attemvt would give it to the vfry daserv1n8 P0013 Rv_1zardu1g the zvvemn11~ni's eco- :___-_1_1:_»_»_1_1___.1__1.___.16_1: _-A-._;1 - be made to have this rate reduced regardless Of their P°1i°1_.'1_5S1l000l_" luwr 1_'~.111 11 the Cliaiicniloy sail, "lor 101111. io ;";";__>`_`_’_"__ '_ _“ - 11<‘wl_\'v1'<‘d,< wc rv;~‘1t to .wo 300000 ' ,-fm \[_,,.,.,,,'_| ` '_ g:rls 1111rr11“d off by 1933 i'1~ _\'~f.- 4 __ Othc f1=nl.\1rr~s of 1111- :zovr‘rn~ Fi “°"'1 -"" " ""° ~» wml "limb" of mmhdavs Workpd mr‘11l'srh111:r- job rrr\alio11 p'nzt‘am i"m‘r?l Mn A ' '- Un 5 “'“q" b”L` WM 57'243ida'?d me incluclod 300,000,000 mrirks ¢=»r1n1o |::l,"y-,... __ _ 1/9151 ‘mount °f waz” P" n C $ll9.100.000\ for tax 101111 u‘ri.i1- 31-1|__i|_'1rI sovvral his 1-nn. 11 mir 1.'ll n hnli. r`l:-1-nirl s oper- :1n1is11|1 1 nfl ibn ‘Pfi by obcvisiva .Wlmvt 'well ss winii-r hier.-.=r 1|. nm. Zstinni _ hh sm. rut, a I vent “Til ll|1- fill. lZ}{(Zl¥&i1Vf22? had packed lobsters ih1‘1‘1‘ for ten \ *-- - _ _ '|111' 10111] .1 11 1' '\1' °1"“‘: °°°.:€“1’ °°..‘“°..“1:.:":.1;'= ;;.“"f::.1.:=y 111 1-1 e re ov - . , ,_. _-. '. 1.».\~ .1 1:1; C By as about that beach." mL 111 '- ‘ 1 - The item carried. SOON MUNICI-l_ Gerrr1:1n_v. April 2 I may tell him that wo have not Cupid was invoked bv Adolph Hit- \1-1-11~11 -1~ 1 Pv- msde political capital out of direct lei' today io solve Gc1'man_v'.s uurm- ””““'| relief." (Applause). “We hav: npt ploymont problem in 1; .=p<~<~1'l1 do- ` endeavored in ,mv may to ry 0 llverod frcln nd\1111p111g <‘11't ni.1'11- N Y ben.-fit politically by ms <11s1r1h11- zrriiaching. He S~1111_ths !_1=’=‘~ . , anniversary of the l11.