Continued
      from
     
     
      page
      16
     
    
   
   
    
     
      workers
      on
      ships.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      The
      way
      it
      is
     
     
      now,
      a
      large
      corporation
     
     
      can
      leave
      a
      country
      and
     
     
      go
      use
      slave-labour
     
     
      wages
      areas
      in
      the
      poorer
     
     
      countries,
      and
      these
     
     
      people
      really
      don’t
      have
     
     
      anyone
      looking
      out
      for
     
     
      them.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      I
      must
      say
     
    
   
   
    
     
      and
      I
      really
      do
      believe
     
     
      that
      if
      there
      is
      a
      human
     
     
      race
      here
      in
      a
      hundred
     
     
      years,
      it’s
      going
      to
      be
     
     
      saved
      by
      millions
      upon
     
     
      millions
      of
      small
     
     
      organizations,
      whether
     
     
      they
      are
      labour
      organiza-
     
     
      tions,
      or
      scientific
     
     
      organizations,
      or
      ecology
     
     
      organizations,
      or
     
     
      cultural
      artistic
      organiza-
     
     
      tions.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      “The
      most
      danger-
     
     
      ous
      religion
      in
      the
     
     
      world
      is
      the
      religion
     
     
      of
      scientists
      who
     
    
   
   
    
     
      think
      that
      an
      infinite
     
     
      Grebe
      Eto
     
     
      SE
      TR
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
      that
      my
      general
      philoso-
     
     
      phy
      now
      is
      that,
      well,
      |
     
     
      appreciate
      that
      some-
     
     
      times
      you
      need
      a
      big
     
     
      organization
      to
      do
     
     
      something,
      like
      a
      post
     
     
      office
      department
      or
     
     
      federal
      express.
      By
      and
     
     
      large
      I
      distrust
      large
     
     
      organizations,
      whether
     
     
      it’s
      a
      large
      church,
      or
      a
     
     
      large
      corporation,
      or
      a
     
     
      large
      government,
      or
     
     
      even
      the
      large
      United
     
     
      Nations,
      because
      big
     
     
      organizations
      attract
     
     
      power
      hungry
      people,
     
     
      and
      pretty
      soon
      they're
     
     
      not
      doing
      what
      you
     
     
      hoped
      they
      would
      do.
     
     
      And
      little
      organizations
     
     
      come
      and
      go,
      but
      a
      good
     
     
      one
      will
      stick
      around
     
     
      longer,
      and
      be
      imitated,
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      So
      you're
     
     
      thinking
      in
      terms
      of
      the
     
     
      small
      groups,
      as
      opposed
     
     
      to
      the
      United
      Nations
     
     
      trying
      to
      save
      the
      world?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      Well
      you
      can
     
     
      try
      with
      big
      organiza-
     
     
      tions,
      but
      you
      have
      to
     
     
      keep
      amending
      things.
      I
     
     
      think
      every
      big
      organiza-
     
     
      tion
      needs
      probably
     
     
      several
      small
      organiza-
     
     
      tions
      to
      keep
      tabs
      on
      it.
     
     
      Certainly,
      in
      spite
      of
      the
     
     
      fact
      that
      there
      is
      a
     
     
      National
      Labour
     
     
      Relations
      Board
      in
      the
     
     
      federal
      government,
      you
     
     
      need
      to
      have
      a
      whole
     
     
      batch
      of
      labour
      organi-
     
     
      zations
      keeping
      tabs
      on
     
     
      it.
      The
      big
      problem
     
    
   
   
    
     
      now
      is
      big
      corporations
     
    
   
   
    
     
      are
      so
      strong
      that
      they
     
     
      control
      the
      government.
     
     
      Who
      is
      going
      to
      keep
     
     
      tabs
      on
      these
      big
     
     
      corporations?
      And
     
     
      when
      you
      try
      and
      get
     
     
      government
      to
      help
      you,
     
     
      the
      government
      is
     
     
      actually
      working
      with
     
     
      the
      corporations.
      As
      we
     
     
      know,
      in
      the
      United
     
     
      States
      at
      least,
      fewer
      and
     
     
      fewer
      people
      bother
      to
     
     
      vote
      anymore.
      Both
      big
     
     
      parties
      are
      controlled
      by
     
     
      the
      big
      business,
      what's
     
     
      the
      use?
      I
      have
      a
      little
     
     
      bet
      on
      with
      friends
      as
      to
     
     
      whether
      the
      average
     
     
      voter
      for
      president
      will
     
     
      go
      down
      as
      low
      as
     
     
      twenty
      percent,
      or
      ten
     
     
      percent,
      or
      even
      five
     
     
      percent
      before
      we
      wake
     
     
      up
      and
      make
      real
     
     
      changes.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      And
      that
      has
     
     
      to
      start
      at
      the
      very
     
     
      bottom
      with
      the
      voters.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      The
      average
     
     
      person
      doesn’t
      stop
      to
     
     
      think
      of
      it,
      bur
      the
     
     
      presidents
      for
      the
      last
     
     
      fifty
      years
      al!
      have
      been
     
     
      elected
      by
      a
      very
      small
     
     
      minority
      of
      the
      Ameri-
     
     
      can
      people.
      |sarcasti-
     
     
      cally]
      Reagan
      was
      swept
     
     
      in
      by
      a
      landslide!
      Well
     
     
      he
      got
      a
      landslide
      of
      the
     
     
      people
      voting,
      but
      the
     
     
      people
      who
      voted
      were
     
     
      like
      fifty
      percent
      of
      the
     
     
      country!
      So
      a
      minority
     
     
      of
      the
      country
      was
     
     
      voting
      for
      him,
      and
      a
     
     
      still
      smaller
      minority
     
     
      voting
      for
      Bush,
      and
      a
     
     
      still
      smaller
      minority
     
     
      voted
      for
      Clinton.
      I
     
     
      think
      Clinton
      was
     
     
      elected
      by
      twenty
     
     
      percent
      of
      the
      American
     
     
      people.
      And
      finally
     
     
      when
      we
      get
      a
      president
     
     
      voted
      for
      by
      two
      percent
     
     
      of
      the
      people,
      maybe
     
     
      we'll
      think
      “Maybe
      we
     
     
      should
      have
      some
     
    
   
   
    
     
      changes
      made.”
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      Looking
      at
     
     
      your
      songs,
      you
      quite
     
     
      often
      raise
      questions,
     
     
      such
      as
      “Waist
      Deep
      In
     
     
      The
      Big
      Muddy,”
      or
     
     
      “We'll
      All
      Be
      A-Dou-
     
     
      bling.”
      You'll
      have
      a
     
     
      question,
      but
      you
      don't
     
     
      necessarily
      have
      the
     
     
      answer.
      Do
      you
      believe
     
     
      the
      important
      thing
      is
      to
     
     
      ask
      the
      questions
      about
     
     
      the
      status
      quo?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      Absolutely.
     
     
      Einstein
      said
      this,
      “The
     
     
      most
      important
      thing
      is
     
     
      to
      find
      the
      right
      ques-
     
     
      tions
      to
      ask.
      At
      least
     
     
      then
      youre
      pointed
      in
     
     
      the
      right
      direction
      to
     
     
      seek
      the
      solutions.”
      And
     
     
      we
      may
      never
      find
      final
     
     
      solutions,
      all
      we
      can
      do
     
     
      is
      find
      half-way
      solu-
     
     
      tions.
      {laughs}
      For
     
     
      example,
      what
      do
      you
     
     
      do
      about
      the
      male
     
     
      aggressions
      that
      have
     
     
      been
      developed
      over
     
     
      hundreds
      of
      thousands
     
     
      of
      years
      of
      living?
      It
     
     
      probably
      produced
      some
     
     
      good
      things,
      but
      also
     
    
   
   
    
     
      produced
      an
      awful
      lot
      of
     
    
   
   
    
     
      rapes,
      and
      wars.
      The
     
     
      good
      and
      the
      bad
      are
      so
     
     
      angled
      up
      in
      the
      world,
     
     
      all
      you
      can
      do
      is
      laugh
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      So
      the
     
     
      question
      is
      the
      impor-
     
     
      tant
      thing,
      because
      it
     
     
      will
      lead
      to
      attempts
      to
     
     
      find
      an
      answer.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      Yep.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      Also
      dealing
     
     
      with
      “Waist
      Deep
      In
     
     
      The
      Big
      Muddy,”
      how
     
     
      deep
      are
      we
      as
      the
     
     
      human
      race?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      I
      believe
      we're
     
     
      much
      deeper
      than
      the
     
     
      average
      person
      realizes.
     
     
      Technology
      makes
      us
     
     
      live
      longer
      and
      more
     
    
   
   
    
     
      comfortably,
      but
     
     
      specialization
      has
      more
     
     
      disadvantages
      than
      most
     
     
      of
      us
      think.
      The
      average
     
     
      person
      is
      not
      in
      as
      good
     
     
      health
      because
      we
      spend
     
     
      most
      of
      our
      lives
      sitting
     
     
      at
      desks.
      Our
      main
     
     
      exercise
      is
      to
      transfer
      our
     
     
      rear
      ends
      from
      one
      seat
     
     
      to
      another,
      from
      a
      desk
     
     
      to
      a
      car,
      to
      a
      table
      where
     
     
      we
      eat,
      to
      another
      car,
      to
     
     
      another
      desk,
      to
      a
      couch
     
     
      where
      we
      look
      at
     
     
      something.
      And
     
     
      admittedly,
      I
      don’t
      think
     
     
      I,
      nor
      anybody,
      would
     
     
      want
      to
      do
      a
      little
      of
     
     
      everything
      as
      our
     
     
      ancestors
      once
      had
      to,
     
     
      when
      we
      dug
      for
      roots,
     
     
      picked
      berries
      and
      tried
     
     
      to
      catch
      animals
      to
      eat,
     
     
      and
      when
      we
      got
      sick
      we
     
     
      died
      unless
      we
      could
     
     
      find
      a
      place
      to
      rest
      safely
     
     
      without
      being
      hurt
      or
     
     
      caught.
      [chuckles]
      So
      |
     
     
      don’t
      think
      I,
      nor
     
     
      anybody,
      would
      really
     
     
      want
      to
      go
      back
      to
      times
     
     
      50,000
      years
      ago
      when
     
     
      our
      ancestors’
      big
     
     
      technology
      was
      to
      learn
     
     
      to
      use
      fire,
      and
      learn
     
     
      how
      to
      latch
      a
      rock
      to
      a
     
     
      piece
      of
      wood
      to
      make
      a
     
     
      club
      out
      of
      it.
      That
      was
     
    
   
   
    
     
      big
      technology
      then.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      Who
      is
      the
     
     
      greatest
      person
      you've
     
     
      ever
      shared
      a
      stage
      with?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      Oh,
      the
      word
     
     
      great
      is
      such
      a...I
      use
      the
     
     
      term
      but
      I
      can’t
      say
     
     
      “greatest.”
      I
      can
      say
     
     
      there’s
      a
      lot
      of
      great
     
     
      people
      I
      shared
      the
      stage
     
     
      with.
      Young
      and
      old,
     
     
      black
      and
      white,
      Latino,
     
     
      dozens,
      and
      I
      would
      be
     
     
      hard
      pressed
      to
      say
      who
     
     
      was
      greater
      than
      who.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      Do
      you
      have
     
     
      any
      message
      youd
      like
      to
     
     
      share
      with
      the
      students
     
     
      here
      at
      UPEI?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      Oh,
      I’ve
      got
     
     
      so
      many
      messages
      it’s
     
     
      hard
      to
      pick
      one.
      Have
     
     
      you
      ever
      heard
      of
      Robert
     
     
      Fulghum?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      RO:
      No.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      PS:
      He
      wrote
      a
     
     
      book
      called
      All
      I
      Really
     
     
      Need
      to
      Know
      I
      Learned
     
     
      in
      Ki
      rten
      :
     
     
      Uncommon
      Thoughts
     
     
      on
      Common
      Things,
     
    
   
   
    
     
      and
      it
      was
      so
      successful
     
     
      he
      put
      out
      several
      more
     
     
      books,
      one
      of
      them
     
     
      called
      Maybe,
      (Maybe
     
     
      Nor).
      Another
      one
      Uh-
     
     
      oh.
      {laughs]
      And
      he
      may
     
     
      have
      put
      out
      other
     
     
      books.
      He’s
      an
      ex-
     
     
      Unitarian
      Minister
      who
     
     
      writes
      very
      well.
      I
     
     
      recommend
      his
      books.
      I
     
     
      think
      if
      |
      was
      asked
      to
     
     
      boil
      down
      my
      philoso-
     
     
      phy,
      I
      would
      tell
      the
     
     
      story
      about
      the
      see-saw
     
     
      with
      a
      basket
      of
      rocks
      on
     
     
      one
      end,
      and
      a
      basket
     
     
      half
      full
      of
      sand
      on
      the
     
     
      other
      end.
      Some
      of
      us
     
     
      have
      teaspoons,
      trying
      to
     
     
      fill
      up
      the
      basket
      of
     
     
      sand.
      Most
      people
      are
     
     
      laughing
      at
      us
     
     
      don’t
      you
      see
      it’s
      leaking
     
    
   
   
    
     
      “Say,
     
    
   
   
    
     
      out
      as
      fast
      as
      you're
     
     
      putting
      it
      in?”
      We
      say
     
     
      “Well,
      it
      is
      leaking
      out,
     
     
      but
      it’s
      not
      leaking
      out
     
     
      quite
      as
      fast,
      and
      we're
     
     
      getting
      more
      people
     
     
      with
      teaspoons
      all
      the
     
     
      time.
      And
      sooner
      or
     
     
      later
      we're
      going
      to
      get
     
     
      this
      basket
      full,
      and
     
     
      youre
      going
      to
      see
      that
     
     
      whole
      see-saw
      going
     
     
      ZOOP'
      in
      the
      opposite
     
     
      direction.”
      And
      people
     
     
      will
      say
      “Gee,
      how
      did
      it
     
     
      happen
      so
      suddenly?”
     
     
      “Us
      and
      our
      goddamn
     
     
      teaspoons!”
      Each
      of
      us
     
     
      is
      but
      a
      grain
      of
      sand
      in
     
     
      this
      world,
      and
      we
     
     
      might
      be
      the
      grain
      of
     
     
      sand
      that
      tips
      that
      see-
     
     
      saw.
      END
     
    
   
   
    
     
      ay
     
     
      ~]
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Mm
      Qo
      D>