An
      interview
      with
      John
      Henrik
      Clark
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
      by
      DAVID
      AUSTIN
      (The
      McGill
      Daily)
     
    
   
   
    
     
      DR.
      JOHN
      HENRIK
      CLARK
      IS
      PROFESSOR
      EMERITUS
      OF
     
     
      AFRICAN
      AND
      PUERTO
      RICAN
      STUDIES
      AT
      HUNTER
     
     
      COLLEGE,
      NEW
      YORK.
      HE
      IS
      THE
      AUTHOR
      OFA
     
     
      NUMBER
      OF
      BOOKS
      INCLUDING
      MALCOLM
      X:
      THE
      MAN
     
     
      AND
      HIS
      TIMES
      AND
      HIS
      MOST
      RECENT
      BOOK,
      AFRICA
     
     
      AT
      THE
      CROSSROADS:
      NOTES
      OF
      AN
      AFRICAN
      REVOLUTION.
     
     
      THE
      DAILY
      INTERVIEWED
      DR.
      CLARK
      LAST
      AUGUST
      AT
     
     
      HIS
      HOMEIN
      HARLEM.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Daily:
      Isuppose
      I
      should
      start
     
     
      off
      with
      the
      most
      basic
      and
     
     
      fundamental
      question.
      Why
     
     
      should
      we
      not
      celebrate
      the
     
     
      anniversary
      of
      the
      presence
     
     
      of
      Columbus
      in
      the
      Ameri-
     
     
      cas?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Clark:
      The
      main
      reason
      why
     
     
      you
      should
      not
      celebrate
      the
     
     
      500th
      year
      of
      Columbus’
      al-
     
     
      leged
      discovery--because
     
     
      Columbus
      did
      not
      discover
     
     
      anything--is
      the
      fact
      that
      you
     
     
      are
      celebrating
      the
      life
      of
      a
     
     
      rapist.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      The
      question
      itself
      is
      out
      of
     
     
      order.
      You’re
      almost
      asking
     
     
      me
      to
      celebrate
      the
      birth
      of
     
     
      someone
      who
      raped
      his
      mother
     
     
      and
      murdered
      his
      father.
     
     
      Christopher
      Columbus
      and
      his
     
     
      European
      thugs
      reduced
      the
     
     
      indigenous
      American
      popula-
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
      tion
      to
      a
      point
      where
      they
      felt
     
     
      it
      necessary
      to
      call
      on
      the
     
     
      Catholic
      Church
      to
      sanction
     
     
      the
      increase
      in
      the
      African
     
     
      Slave
      trade.
      This
      resulted
      in
     
     
      the
      expansion
      of
      the
      slave
     
     
      trade
      for
      the
      next
      300
      years,
     
    
   
   
    
     
      -
      creating
      the
      greatest
      singular
     
    
   
   
    
     
      act
      of
      protracted
      murder
      in
     
     
      human
      history--the
      African
     
     
      holocaust.
      We
      have
      much
      to
     
     
      memorialize,
      but
      nothing
      to
     
     
      celebrate.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      When
      you
      say
      rape,
      whatpre-
     
     
      cisely
      do
      you
      mean?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      I
      mean
      not
      only
      the
      physical
     
     
      rape
      of
      the
      body,
      but
      the
      rape
     
     
      of
      the
      culture,
      the
      rape
      of
      the
     
     
      religion,
      the
      destruction
      ofthe
     
     
      gods
      until
      it
      became
      incon-
     
     
      ceivable
      to
      worship
      a
      god
      other
     
     
      than
      the
      white
      one.
      The
      worst
     
     
      kind
      of
      rape:
      the
      rape
      of
      the
     
    
   
   
    
     
      mind.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Many
      apologists
      for
     
     
      Columbus
      say
      it’s
      unfair
      to
     
     
      judge
      Columbus
      based
      on
     
     
      present
      day
      values
      and
      that
     
     
      he
      should
      be
      judged
      accord-
     
     
      ing
      to
      his
      time.
      What
      do
      you
     
     
      say
      to
      that?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Isay
      they’re
      wrong
      both
      ways.
     
     
      You
      judge
      him
      both
      ways.
      You
     
     
      judge
      him
      according
      to
      his
     
     
      time
      and
      you
      judge
      him
      ac-
     
     
      cording
      to
      the
      reverberations
     
     
      of
      what
      he
      did
      that
      still
      af-
     
     
      fects
      the
      time
      in
      which
      you
     
     
      live...
      Youstill
      have
      European
     
     
      domination
      of
      the
      world
     
     
      economy.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      I’m
      saying
      that
      what
      he
      did
     
     
      did
      not
      pass.
      What
      he
      did
      is
     
     
      still
      with
      us.
      The
      long-range
     
     
      impact
      is
      still
      with
      us.
      So
     
     
      Columbus
      is
      in
      both
      the
      past
     
     
      and
      the
      present
      and
      he
      needs
     
     
      to
      be
      judged
      both
      ways.
      There
     
     
      are
      no
      free
      nations
      in
      the
      Car-
     
     
      ibbean.
      There’s
      no
      free
      men-
     
     
      tality
      in
      the
      Caribbean.
     
     
      They’
      re
      imitations
      of
      Europe.
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
      There’s
      no
      African
      religion
      in
     
     
      the
      Caribbean.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      I’ve
      heard
      you
      mention
      that
     
     
      in
      one
      of
      Columbus’
      diaries
     
     
      he
      mentions...
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Thathe
      sailed
      up
      and
      down
      the
     
     
      Guinea
      Coast
      for
      23
      years.
      The
     
     
      Guinea
      Coast
      is
      West
      Africa,
     
     
      which
      proves
      he
      was
      in
      the
     
     
      early
      Portuguese
      slave
      trade.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      So
      before
      he
      arrived
      in
     
     
      America
      he
      was
      directly
      in-
     
     
      volved
      in
      the
      slave
      trade?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Yes.
      There’s
      nothing
      else
      he
     
     
      could
      have
      been
      involved
      with
     
     
      at
      that
      time.
      There’s
      nothing
     
     
      else
      going
      on
      in
      relationship
     
     
      to
      whites
      there.
     
    

    
     
      Atthat
      time
      it
      was
      the
      Portu-
     
     
      guese
      who
      were
      ex-
     
     
      perimenting
      with
      slavery?
     
     
      Yeah,
      and
      some
      of
      the
      slaves
     
     
      were
      being
      taken
      to
      the
      Ca
     
     
      nary
      islands,
      especially
      a0
     
     
      island
      called
      Madeira.
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
     
         
     
     
        
     
     
        
     
     
         
     
     
        
     
     
       
     
     
          
     
     
         
     
     
        
     
     
       
     
     
       
     
     
         
     
     
         
     
     
         
     
     
       
     
     
         
     
    
   
   
    
     
      I’ve
      also
      heard
      you
      say
      thatil
     
     
      was
      the
      Africans
      on
      the