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VPARI‘NCE EDWARD’ISLAND ADVERTISER."

vol. 111.]

COLONIAL LEGISLATURE.

FRIDAY, quary 28.

- Joni! BILL.

The House resolved itselfinto a Committe of the whole on the further consideration of the Bill for regulating the qualifications of Jurors, &c.' ‘

The _Hon. J. S. MACDONALD considered it improper to exclude fire-engine men, as reported. Fire-engine men were sufficiently exempted already. hey were free from militia duty and statuto labour. In case of a fire when in Court, all would turn out as well u firemen.

Mr. Ran thought that every man of legal age who was a house- holder, and who had been resident in the Colony for twelve months, abuld be considered qualified to serve as a juryman. He said they were not. bound to pay much regard to property.

Mr. Fnasnrt observed many young men made much better jur -

men than their fathers. The old bill, be thought, did well enoug . The further consideration of the honourable member (Mr. 'l‘liom- son’s) bill, would be a mere waste of time to the house. The honourable member, he thought, wanted to make a bill for himself and Georgetown. Juries were sometimes composed in which there was nejther landlord nor tenant. He thought no man of legal age, sane mind and fair character should be declared incapable of serving on lines. ‘ 1 . _ r. liars would go so far as to make the selection of men to serve as jurors Impartial. A man’s being twenty years of age and a householder should berequisite qualifications. The very circumstance of a man’s keepinar a house of his own gave a gravcr, a more sedate turn to his mind, and tended to make him, as it made it more his interest to be, more observantof social order. He wished the bill had not been brought iii; but, as it had been introduced, he would go so far as to endeavour to prevent the packin of juries.- That persons should be twent years of age and househol ers ought to be indispensable qualifications 0 jurors.

r. SPIAIER thought it would not be proper to exclude young men of

twenty-two or twenty-three years of a e, and upwards, residing with their parents, before a division of property, ut having with their parents a com- .mon interest in the land the cultivate.

Mr. I’LAE objected that this would bring in man who had never been iii the habit ofacting u on their own judgment, an who, by previous care and anxiety about their own affairs, were not prepared, with due delibera-

tion and discretion, to 'udge respecting the affairs of others. He would not then, however‘, particu arly press his private opinions, nor harass others with .his I nliar views. v it r. THOMSON supported the views which had induced him to bri-n in the bill. If it would be an experiment, it would be such a one as had raved satisfactory and successful in Great Britain and New Brunswick.

{e had merely been using his humble endeavours to raise the qualifications of jury-men, both as to property and mental qualifications : his main object was to have juries fairly drawn to the prevention of packing. ,

Mr. Ln LACHEvn couldfin no very particular objection to the fold bill, except the selection of grandjurors from .the magistracy and high stations. He would like a short act to cause grand jurors and petitjurors to be drawn

romiscuously from persons of similar qualifications. He once asked

twent -four years ago, when youn and inexperienced,) an old gentleman, the ol estl‘awyer in the Court in w ich he put the uestion, what was the arse of a grand jury. “ Had you asked me," replied the old gentleman, “ what was the abuse of a graudjury, I might have been able to answer your question. A grand jury is a. secret tribunal, before which aman is dragged that he may there undergo a. proper keel-hauling, and from thence, frequently on the accusation of the per'ured, seat to trial, and, it might be, to condemnation ” A man, said Mr. e Laclieur, from the most base and unprincipled motives, might come before a grand jury, and, on oath, pre- fera chargeof guilt against the innocent. In consequence, the innocent man mightbe sent to trial and degradation; for trial in itself, even of the innocent, on criminal charges almost ever carried along with it some of '— trees of ' guilt.""l'o have once been suspected and tried, if not sufficient cause for future trials, was, at least in many cases, sufficient to lay amen under suspicion all his life after. Again, with res ect to grand juries, although he was very far from intending to impeach t e conduct of any grand jury-man, how easy was it, he would ask, for such a one, over a cup ofcofi‘ee, or it might be over a cup of wine, to let slip what had been preferred against a man in the grand jury room; and the evd consequences which might result to the accused from such indiscretion he need not stop to point out. If all were drawn out of one box, the grand jury first. and the petitjury next, a man would then, in reality, be tried by a jury of his peers. A man accused might then have a neighbour of his own rank and station upon the grandjury, whose knowledge of the general character and habits of the accused might greatly weaken, as weighing With his fellow jurors, the force of the accusation preferred against the man in custody. This mode of selectinrIr grand jurors would, if adopted, prevent many persons from being unjustly sent to trial.

Mr. GORMAN replied to the honourable gentleman (Mr. Le Lacheur), that the Chief Justice’s definition of a grand jury differed widely from his (Mr. Le Lacheur’s). The Chief Justice had informed them, that the gentlemen composinga rand jury were the grand inquisitors of the-country; and be (Mr. German was of o inion that grand juries had very important duties to rform. So far fgom keel-hauling the character of individuals, he thought they quashed a great many vexatious suits, and were the safeguard of the pee le. He did not think, either, that the grand juries and petit juries shou d be drawn from one box, or that every petit jury-man should be ualifiedtobea andjuror. .

r. CLARK was ecidcdly of opinion that the qualifications of a juror should be mental, and not de endent upon any casual or ’external circum- stance of money or land. e saw, however, that ’a discretionary power should rest somewhere. It was, be believed, contemplated by the _bill un- der consideration, that that power should be vested in the magistrates. But magistrates were as likely to prove unfaithful as sheriffs. He was afraid too that magistrates mi ht not alWays prove com'petcntjudges in the matter. He thought, upon 1 e whole, the sheriff would be the mostlikely person to discharge the discretionary power in a proper manner ; and if he shouldbe found to be abusin his trust, by a representation of facts in the

perquarter,be would don tless be removed. He, (Mr. Clark,) if he

manic aware of the abuse of such a” trust b ' any sheriff, whoever might be the man, would be’ one of the first to comp aiii and demand his dismissal ' from oflice. Again to advert to the qualifications of jurors, he thought it would be impossible to make any other distinction than such a one as he ' ‘ ’ ; and that distinction, it appeared to him,~was all that was called for. It was by no means an easy matter, if the qualifications were to depend u the possession of property, in money or lands, to say who 130559.th qualification. Many mgn were reputed the possessors of property, win;- in fact were, literally and truly, nothing but the nominal - 3k» Srsaxnn was afraid the duty intended to be imposed upon the pagan-Meow not clear understood. .All that was tn be lrequired. of ' fireni was, that they shou d give in lists. of such nion,,in thqu respective districts, as were qualified'to serve as urors. Erom the lists so given 'urorswernto be summoned - the names ,0 the men stunnioned were all , to he utjnto one box, and from that box names were to be .prorruscuousrly Br’awri‘for the formation of “tides. I ‘ ' ' 1. ‘ . .

Mr. HOMSON explaiue . It'vhad‘bc'en said by an'honOura‘blc member flmtii ‘ibcrifl’s general. knowledge of persons in his neighbonfhdqd was ii 134” greater tbtr’n‘thntof the magistrates. v-According to the bill, the fit ere Ito be- made out by the Justices of the Peace and the Sherifi‘of each county; the knowledgnof'bnth psi-ties wooldtherefore'be tinned: 'r .5-Mi’flhz‘. said- liehhdorstood‘. some honourable members, tin-think, {that generallyito'beof the la lageof twenty-one would be asuflicient ualifi: 5ation. In this opinion e could not concur. There should be a ig'her qualification than‘merem 'ority. - That jurors shopldl. be householdergwas * wise neqesxary qu mention, and, besides, it was a plain andsiinple

‘ Quin-Pianist!!! said ljethbadlistened to the debate lfat attentiolr'ié esub'ect was one o ' e very cutest importance. n. y jury 191 gr]; pé’lladium of the people. Whatever aflects that privtlege, affects the all!

power of every individual of the community. He iwould‘wil- flngl goheart dbgnd along with_ anyone who would revise and jmproye the fury Bill. . a revoapective view of the conduct of sheriffs, With respect to summoning juries, as far as bewas acquainted with it, he saw po reasonto com lain of it. He .(the sheriff) does every thing on oath, and is amenable to the country on his bond. There was a summary way of proceeding 'nstthe sherifl' in any case Of delinquency, according to which lie mi t be for unused or fined to any amount. There had been no great evil occasioned y the conduct of any indlwdual'slierifl‘. . The. selec- tion of sheriffs rests witguflie'GoTvgnogfioichooses {firmfrfi’q oéinézgjgezce, rt tenant onri'it.. . t) ‘ samenae pa 0 ’ MjlsPdecpreaionsilfility renders it higbwly probable that. In all cue‘s,be will be anxious to discharge his duty. r.’ Thomson says he wishes to raise the qualifications of jury-men. That could no} be done, (said MP- Filmer) by simply requiring by_law_ that ajuryman s qualifica- titullbodd be oh certain specified character. They would have to take such men for jtlloll cube country could afford. The prpper qualification! pfjnzypen were of mentatl order, and these could be improved . only by the s read of education, among the people. The present onward ,ijiamll 0f fingfl’m‘v 5° ""1125! 00 In], lie trusted, would soon effect much that hei‘a‘eeiritble on that he ’

- WhatJhey at all times wanted on juries was m“

,tbinleiag

good, mil judgmenti'aad such. men, happily,*eveii iii the present

state of the Island community, were to be found, and that,'too, in some measure, independent of education. It had been said that professional men took advantage of ignorant juries, and frequently obtained verdicts contrary to justice and the facts of the case. But, were not honourable members aware, that when”, from i orance, misa proheiision of evidence, and the deceitful arts (if they woul have it so) 0 counsel, a jury gave an improper verdict, a new trial was usually applied for and ranted. New trials, he admitted, were generally owing to the want of into ligence on the part of junes; but still he maintained that jur men were,takin them all in all, as intelligent as the countr could a ‘ord. Changin to system would not improve the general inte ligencc of jurors; it woqu not affect the materials from wliichjurymcn were to be selected. It had been said that both the grand and petit juries should be taken from the same anel, arid drawn from the same box. To do so ‘would be contrary to the aw of England. The duties of grand juries and of petit-juries areseparate and

.distinct. A grand jury is a pointed not to try a man, but to preventa.

man’s being put upon his tria , without a sufficient reason to suspect his being guilty of the crime preferred against him. They are supposed to be beyond the reach_of all (petty influence; and, without sufficient cause, to send no man to trial : aii , w en they do send a man to trial, he is Committed to the hands of his peers. The possession of an estate was not a necessary qualification of a petitjuror; a man’s understanding was not to be measured by the breadth ofhis land. Jurors were notlike electors. Forjurors, sound judgment and good characters are all that should be required. The coun- try, hc'said, is not ripe for the proposed improvement: an increase of population and ofintelligence must he waited for. The time, he was happy 'to think, was not far distant when the Colony would want neither for numbers nor intelligence. At present it would not be expedient to prosc- cute the consideration of the bill any further. Mr. Pulnicr concluded by sct‘ondtrig the motion of Mr. Gorniuit.

The Hon. Mr. POPE confessed he differed in opinion from the honourable member for Charlottetown. He had never known juries to be packed, but yet the bestpossihle choice, he believed, was rarely made. Sheriff's had it not always in their power to make such a choice as the themselves ap- proved ot‘. They were obli ed to entrust the discharge of t ie general duties of the ofiice to.deputies. Véheu he had the honour to fill the situation of Sheriff for Prince County, be determined to select none for petitjurors, but men respectable for moral character and intelligence, and gave in- structions to his deputy, in accordance with such intention; but, as his de uty was not bound under a. penalty in every thing relating to the oflice ful y to act according to his instructions, and as in such case no travelling expenses are allowed, he (the deputy), to his (Mr. Pope’s) great annoyance, selected such men‘forjurors as best suited his own convenience. This evil be (Mr. Po c) would ccrtainlylike to remedy, but was‘afaid the bill before them woul not effect so desirable an object. He would not like the grand and the petit jurors to be drawn from the same panel. The powers of a grand jury were of very great extent and of no less importance; and per-

aps to none but individuals whose standing in society and whose property mightbe considered aguarantee for a faithful and independent dischar e of their duties, should powers so extensive and important be entrusted: the were called upon to perform many dutics ofa disagreeable and almost iiiv1tlious character, for which, were they poor men, a sense of their depen- dence might disqualify them. He (Mr. Pope) did not however, wish to be understood that he thought a higher degree of inteli once requisite ina grand than in a petitjuror; quite the reverse; but what e maintained was, that, from the peculiar and extensive nature of his powers and duties, it was necessary that a grandjuror should possess that degree of independence in society which property confers, and which the less onerous duty of a petit juror made less necessary for him to possess. He (Mr. Pope) thought the pliesent mode of selecting grand jurors preferable to the one proposed.

e would not, however, vote against the bill, unless, after a fnir trial,hc should see reason to condemn it. On the third reading, perhaps, he might be better able to pro use amendments. .

Mr. THOMSON, in support of his bill, said, his great anxrety for the success ofso very important a measure as he had presumed to introduce, led him earnestly to invite honourable members to give the bill their best consideration, and the benefit ofwhatever amend- ments mialit present themselves to.- their minds. He was far from

7, aWfifi7‘Wy; of honourable rnembers,hc was desirous to advance it as near to perfection as possible. At present, he said, the law required no qualification of grand jurors, but the bill would raise their qualifi- ctttion to that of petit jurors. By the law of Great Britain, the qualifications of grand jurors and petit jurors were the sumo; and if there was no objection to an equality of their qualifications, why should they not be drawn from the same panel? A property qua- lification, he insisted upon it, should be indispensab c. It is propert , he said, which holds and binds society together. But althougi he thought it necessary that. a juryman s iould have some property, as o. stake, in the country, he was far from intending that such a qualification should render mental qualifications unnecessary.

- A stake ofsome property in the country and the being able to read

and write, were. the two principal qualifications which he wished to carry. The honourable and learned member for Charlottetown had said he saw no great evil resulting from the old system; and

et, on tlie‘first reading of' the bill, be had acknowledged that he iud, on some occasions, seen persons in the jur -box who were unfit to sit there. If the honourable and learns gentleman was iiware oftlie existence of so great an evil as that men utterl des- titute of the requisite qualifications, were now admitted to mm a constituent part of a jury, to decide respecting property, and, at times, u on the life or death of a fellow creature, was it no part of the legislative duty of that honourable gentleman to prevent so enormous and cr ing an evil ? He (Mr. Thomson) had seen enough to know the trut iofthe statement of the honourable member from Bedeque. It: was notorious that Under sheriffs frequcn'tll‘y made the most. im ropcr selections of men to act as jurors be ten- dency ofliis Mr. Thomson’s) bill was tsprevont a continuance of the evil.

JI‘he Hon. J. S. MACDONALD adverted to what he had said respecting the hill on the previous day. 1119 thought the Colony was yet too young,its population too scanty, to admit ofthe whole- some operation, of such a measure. If it were made a necessary

ualification of a petit juror that he should be in the occupation of T00 acres of land, and able to read and write, many persons who

jought, in the present state .of the country, to be eligible, would be

_oxcluded from serving onjuries. There was also another objection, which 'he had before made to the bill; it went to throw upon the magistrates the discharge of an active and important duty, which, in fairness, they could not be expected to perform without remu- neration for their trouble. He could not see that property should be made a necessary qualification fdr pstit 'urors. A good "moral character, a plain natural understanding, an a regard to conscience, might, in his opinion, in the present state of tho country,vbe admitted as a suflicient’qualification in the majority of ajury. . _

1 Mr. Hawaii observed. that 'the rejection of the bill for the pre- sent would afi'ord anopportunity for the canvassing of the measure Zumong the people, eforc another session. He considered tire ‘country to be too youug'to admit of tho salutary working of flip fmeasure, but it was reasonable to suppose,-tliat, in a few years, it ,would be otherwise. I . I _ V.

’ ’ ',Mr._Srn'A3xr:n said, had thebill come from the hands'of a special Commi‘tteé,'i£ w0uld,'mostlikely,havo been so'fiamcd as to meet with greater support front the house; and, therefore, in that opi- nion, should the motion of the honourable member (Mr. Gorman) be lost, he would (that 'the bill might not be quite thrown away) ,moye,_that the-bill :be-referred to the couSIderation of a special Committee. . _ I ‘ .

' MrIPsLMER said,the country would, doubtless, form a very high

'idea of the business qualifications of the house, whcn'the should see ,that bills were tossed about in ‘t'liz'iLway. It woul be‘time

. enough to bring in such a bill next session.

Mr. THOMSON said, the bill had been a week before' the house, and honourable members had’had suflicient time to propose amend- ments and remodel the whole, had they been so disposed. He had the more confidence in the bill, that it was not a creation of :his own brain. 'It had been tried and approved elsewhere... It had been the law of Great Britain ‘four ‘ years. He did, not believe the country was too . oung for such a law. The country,fie.‘thlouglit, lcoiild now yield e ght hundred such juryrncn as be re ujred, one out of every fifty individuals. But he might even-go. arther, and 'say one out ofevery twenty-five,‘whi¢h.would give sixteen man qualified to serve as jurymen, a number, he considered, more than sufficient for the Colony. He had not accused physberiff pf limproper conduct, with respectto the selection ofjurymcn; but he had said the present mode of‘selecting jurymen sometimesrendereji the sherifi‘liablo_toa suspicion of unfairness; atl'd by .this bill he wished to provide a ainst the possibility of such suspicion. .If the

leading'fsatiirés of the bill were recognized bytho house, he cared not what they made the qualificationsrofjuron. - 1 ' - u 2 .,

:57.

CHARLOTTETOWN, SATUIlDAY, MARCH 21, 1840.

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[.N5. 133.

it:

The question being then called, the Chairman put Mr. German's motion, that the Speaker take the Chair, and the Committee i’ise Without reporting. I‘he Committee then divided, and the question was carric in the affirmative, by the casting vote ofthe Chai‘rmin. ——So the Bill was lost. . “

v _ gist-1E1“ nEsnnvn BILL. » n -

I‘lie Bill for regulating the Fishery Reserves in this Island, was then, according to order, read a second time; and the same was committed to a Committee of‘ the whole Housc.~ Mr. D. Mando- nald took the chair of the Committee. ' .

The Committee then went through the bill, clause by clause, no very important discussion arising thereon—Mr. Rae made some remarks, the main purport of which was, that the marshes never l1» been mentioned in the original grants, the proprietors had né‘ _ had any controul over tliem.—Mr Gorman, on the same subject, observed that, inmany places, the salt marshes absolutely constituted the sea shore, and as such were certainly to be considered a part of the Fishery Reserves.—-’l‘he Honourable Mr. Pope, speaking of the right given by the bill to fisher- men to choose their fishing stations within the Reserves, and