AUGUST 5. 1931

2) cccntlnlllll ‘mm m‘ ‘

Minister of Public Works. The De- ? He must partmcnt of Justice says that this is

the swell“ d“

f lstnprcsenm; some person. a .' it " i flaps own ‘Mr. Bennett: "The . ulsineer '5 thereon ~"9°"’ and he w k d for a report rm of an: i- I l“ e U5 _§ FY59!!!" ‘:85: be pagan. 1 had lion ae things; 1 sent an engineer l '1 ‘headers 1 went to England, and . balked ‘the Minister of Public d

and the Depgrtmelifl 01 Ralli- , and Camp to keep watch on , zsundertakyng because of what I m 1 received a report Whl°h norablo member 301‘ Gardiner) I thought I to treat as a confident- Ministei‘. B3

.-

‘Bigl ' He.

having been filed.

ficulty. It is a question whether or INVESTIGATION not, under these circumstances, the

Minister may. after the expiration Government of the time fixed for the filing of (p see what is 8°‘ . the plans, give his approval. It is a not there on the question whether or not he is func- tus e 1 realized that ac- the time; because there has not heard been flied within the year any- thing to which he might give ap- proval under the terms of the or-

tion over certain parts of the 5t. Lawrence. The Privy Council has

have control over:

Such works as, although wholly situated within the province, are before or after their execution de- clared by the Parliament of Can. ada to be for the general advent- age of two or more of the provinc- es

“I am not competent to advise the

quellilo - of the greatest legal ou-

We can only with the consent, or shall I say with the goodwill, of the Province of Quebec, take that action. We have prepared a bill which, if agreed to by the Province oi Quebec, will declare that this work is a work for the general ad- vantage of Canada. ‘

offlclo after the expiration of

8!‘ 1n COLIIIOII.

" Quebec's nlcnrs . - ouaaac COUNSEL (IO-OPERAT-

The Province of Quebec claims Es

and has exercised certain jurisdic- ~ Counsel for the Province of Que-

bcs has co-operated with us with

... a that the bed o; the harbor respect to this legislation and it is

going on. I take it that

appearifls ‘he

Wm, respect 1,0 the chief en-

ter and ‘Deputy M11118“! 11B! “m, relation to these facts.

. “Now I ask this House to consider my significant fact. The Govern- ment o; ml; country was defied-

le 0i £311,522,?“ svelte diverting the mm- st, Lawrence: they breached we Hungry Bay Dyke which the? M m, right to do. They went on w; as they pleased; they were so we that the Government would be ram“; mp1; they thought they sould afford to mama in the world."

Mr, Euler: "If this company was ‘ablation, under the ordenin-Coun til. ill m; plan had oovernmcni. pgnnitied to go on h, last election under government?" _

Premier Bennett: No approval m given within the year and the ma; plans were not flied within that time. The question of law is a ylmplc one. Where a delegated pow- gr is being exercised by a Minist- or, has he any authority to exercise that power after the expiration of the period of time fixed within which he must do it? Thers are clear authorities that he has not such power. No ‘application was made, as a matter of fact. beyond the filing of the plans. I will give ln a single sentence the answer to

my honorable friend from North

Waterloo (Mr. Euler.) who is o! a very inquiring mind. These gent- lemen took the‘ view before the committee that a-ll they were do- ing was digging a ditch on their own land.

Let me put it this way to the honorable gentleman. If their con- tention was right, that they were down there having bought a piece

o: land on which they were carry- ing on excavations, putting up some embankments and matters of that kind. this Government has no power to interfere. lMr. Ellis-rt But were they right? 'Mr. Bennett: As a matter of fact, ii they say that is what they were

ilillllg. they were right. And they

sold bonds of the hydro-electric llllcrnrlsa with which the Govern-

ment had nothing to do. I hope I make myself clear.

They have breached the Hungry 5W llykc without consent, ‘The my was that they could not do that cithcr. I will confess to my honorable friend that it ls a. mat- ter that gave me great concern when I found what they were doing;

"ill ll save me great concern when

l’ I discovered the attitude they had

taken. because it made our posit- ion so difficult. We could not

hllllfll injunction proceedings a- "m" them: they owned ‘the land. Tllty were not trespassers: this was illllr Property, now that is the p0- sltlon.

how is it they were for a year after the present

709.000 REASONS

"l have given these illustrations because, as I have said to the House R ‘M5 appear to me that the real iflllvamen of the charge against the “llllllfllly in the first instance ls

Pill ll absolutely defied this Gov- ernment. And when I say this Gov- tfllmcnt. I mcan the Government ll. Canada. under whatever auspic- “l it may be conducted. Why did lllcy do so? Any judge addressing ‘l lllrv would say, ‘It is for you Bcllllcmcn to say why.‘ Woll, there we" 700.000 reasons worth each 100 cents in the dollar." ' “air. Jacobs: "Is it not a fact that

* Phlllll have since been recom- "llllicd for approval by the De- izlimcnt of Public Works. and have hi" Walling ml- the lart eight

"ills for tho approval of the Minister?" "'2'"- Bennett: "I mentioned that N engineer had rzcomrnende-i ‘Will!- hilt the Minister is met with “v IWlll dlfliCllltP-lfld I put it to m" e551 member of tbs House. ‘mug Minister. excrcbinv a del-

a Dower from the Governor-

i - ..

#53:‘ “Ll- l°llni'.v exorcise that statute, the next quutlon is what

“Fa; ‘i’ "‘l th~ period of llms ms shall be dam at the present mom- withln which the p'ans are ont. lubaeotion i0q of section

of Montreal belongs to the Crown in right of the province, 1n the first instance. The question as to the right of the province with respect to the water has, for many reasons, not yet been decided. The leader of the King) last evening indicated the ° difficulties, so far as the Supreme Court of Canada was concerned, with reference to the stated case presented for its consideration.

right in respect of navigation, and, for myself, I never had any in the world about the fact that take almost any there is no power under the Nav- igable Waters Protection Act to ap

proposed to add a provision’ that nothing in the act shall in any sense be taken as interfering with any of tho vested rights which the prov- ince of Quebec may have in hydro- electric u... ‘ , i as d‘ “ ' ‘l-

ed from the canaliz tlon of the riv-

Opposition (Mr. Mackenzie

r.

Mr. IaPolnte: Would that mean that the canal is to be declared for the general advantage of Canada, but. that the power created by vir- tue of the works will be under the control of the Province of Quebec? Mr. Bennett: We could not make

The Dominion" has paramount

doubt

‘provides that the province shall not do,

a declaration cf that kind. That is something which will have to be decided ultimately by the courts. We

provs of plans such as these. Til t itself is lear. It makes no more g0 o“ Mm construction mm lt-Zfercnce t: the matter than it

6

propose to have a decision based upon a concrete base and not upon

engaged the attention of the sup-

the theories which unfortunately

asgert the supremacy of Parlia- ment on onehandmnd declare once and for all that the methods by which the undertaking was com- menced are not the methods by which it will be ended. Thlrdly, to secure this undertaking and hasten. its completion, because I believe it to be one of the greatest ‘undertak- ings thatcould be completed in the national interest.

Then there arises the question aa-to who is going to control the enterprise, that is involved in the terms and conditions for which the order-in-Council must provide, be- cause thers are four alternatives, and four only, as I see the matter: first, the present management might be able w secure financial backing to enable them to continue. That is their" business. I do not llllllk they can. Second, the pfop- crty could be taken over by the Province of Quebec, undera hydro commission or a public commission. That I do not believe the province of Quebec will do.

Mr. LaPointe-And it is their own business. Mr. " body's else. Third, it might be the Dominion might take it over although legal difficulties would arise to which reference was made ywterday and in regard to which I wholly agree of such a character that the inevit- able result would be the stoppage of the enterprise. I say to the honor- able member for Winnipeg Ivorth Centre (Mr. Woodsworth) who has just taken his seat: He must real- ize clearly we could not by any declaration of this Parliament, un- less Quebec acquiesce and became a.

n. A Aivland n°_

‘should be appointed to go around

partner with us do that so far as

b h been approved y t e does to a river in China, so far as that is concerned. I feel perfectly

reme court.

confident. that this is so. Mr. LsPointe: Does my right hon orable friend claim that order-in- Council F. C. 422 has the effect of perlnltting the diversion of the whole St. Lawrence.

CANCEL ORDER. IN COUNCIL

e

DE-WATER ST. LAWRENCE

Mr. Bennett: I say that the not become effective unm pmda

Province of Quebec has added 30.-

i 60.- 000 second feet to the or ginal ‘s made m that we".

With the approval of this House we propose to annul and cancel the order-in-Councli. Having regard to the circumstances under which it was obtained and the defiance of Canada and of the Government, we propose to cancel it. The act will

mation of the Governor-in-Council

the Dominion is concerned.

run CHARLOTTETOWN GUARDIAN

Think Haydon Was Going To

saythat no part of tbs election ‘funds from the central fund were ‘spent in their constituencies.

lllillley to help the Consumerrl League or somebody else. I‘ do not y believe the people of Canada, ox. pect that a roving conunissiop and ask everybody whether he made ls a contribution to a party fund or to help anyone to be elected or not.

contribute oven as small as 25 cents to the fortunes oi political parties. There is only one thing I want to say about the well being of the party that sits across the way to my right and it is this: Their organization ensures at the minimum of expenditure of public money that the voice of the people may be recorded. The 25-cent con- tributions that are made by in- dividual contributors to the funds of the party in the province in which I live have been of great use and have taught the people that they get just what they pay for, so far as that is concerned.

v P

‘MEANING UNINTENDEI)

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Bennett: Some honorable gentlemen are pleased to put upon that a meaning that I had not in- tended, and one which I think is 1 not warranted. The honorable mem- ber for Winnipeg North Centre spoke of the cost oi his election be- ing $500 or $600. The cost of elect- ion campaigns carried on by hon- orable gentlemen who sit opposite to me and to my right amount to only a few hundred dollars, for this reason: They come into one community and it is the bcunden duty of the organization there to take care of the candidate and see

ers of the Beauharnols company?

000 second feet and the effect will be to render no longer navigable the River St. Lawrence. It is only navigable in a lhnited way at any time and the Governor-in-Councll is now being asked to de-water the river so that it would not be nav- lgable. Mr. LaPointe: Not under order- t in-Council r. c. 422. Surely the “"5 Government has the P°\'er to pre- vent that. Mr. Bennett: The Governor-in- Council granted only 40,000 second feet but the Province of Quebec has granted an additional 30.000 sec-

which the order in Council,

who put their

conditions as the also will come into eflect upon ciamatlon of the Council.

The net result of the action whlc

Mr. Bennett: Application has been made to the Government. If, under the Navigable Waters Pro- tection Act ‘they can grant one thing they can grant the other. If they can cause the river not to be navigable, they can de-water it al- together. As a matter of fact the plans have been approved-this leads me to the other point-Ac take the whole flow of the River St. Lawrence. In other words what was the River 8t. Lawrence yesterday is now to be the Beauharnols Canal. Yet it is said that it can be done under the statute which will not permit the erection of bridges a- crossihe river. Mr. Bennett: They have no pow- er over navigation and they do not pretend to have any right to take the 5t. Lawrence River away from its course. What a beautiful argu- ment to say that you do not per- mit ihe diversion although you ap- prove of plans for a contemplated diversion.

Second. we shall old order-in-Councll under which operated is no longer Third that no grants

l

by order in. Council.

be on such terms that. this undertaking, its 811009580

provision is made

to the enterprie and has been there expended.

able friend used the “grants will be made." what he refers plans.

SUBMIT TO PARLIAMENT

lVlr. Ilennettz-Nol _ water by Parliament. . My, King -—A grant of water? DOMINIONS PARAMOUNT RIGHT ' 53,000 cubic Mr. LaPoint/e: If my right hon- u,‘ be,“ the 40pm) whlc feet, p orable friend admits that the bed oi the river and the land adjac- cnt are the property of the Prov- ince of Quebec, is it not for that Rube“ interests and the province to allow the diversion of Mm mums“, the water and change the course o.’ m (eat m, second may ghlg Pa the rivcr providing this. Govern- “amen h” many“; and

of Quebec, and

create the diversion. Mr. Bennett: My honorable friend plemenfng (he Mg of the just overlooks one sentence. The ‘um n; Quebec ma; ha;

'paramount right of navigation is in the hands of the Dominion. It is abundantly clear that nomemrmyne m successors;

to the Beauhamols, and a right that.

contemplated. There is no provis- Ztcnds wlthoutarzngatlng to oursel ion there for the protection o.‘ in- ' vcstors or anything of that sort which always occurs in an act of parliament of this kind. This (al section of the order) cul templates‘ just the sort of thing one expects with respect to navigable rivers. such as booms and small matters of that kind and not a great nai- ioncl enterprise such as this. Having said this much about the

grant.

same as the order in council. Mr. Bennett-Exactly; but

wr-rk now proceed? Mr. Bennett-The

gentleman has asked a question

02 which I was just going to refer.

“° ‘lillwved. wmlcut m; plans of u» mm North ‘America

y

We propose to ask Parliament t0

0nd feet.

, _ we propose in take will be to de- §P°1nte' B“ not m“ Gov claro that this canal is a work for em e ' the general advantage of Canada-

declare that the

operative. out of the river 5t. Lawrence shall be made but only by Parliament. We shall provide fur“ thcr that the order in Council shall l and conditions

or assigns shall be able to carry

But one of them must be that for bona fide in- vestors who subscribed $30,000.09" whose money

My, Mackenzie King-MY h°h°l'- expression. I assume:

to is approval of?

A grant of

Mr. Bennett-A right t0 divert feet per second of wat-

sccond authorized by the Province the 13,000 cublclcommit

Cotton lllllklllil 53-000 “b” dertaking. La

ll lmmmls- zle King) once m public attention away from Beau- harnois began to talk about an in- of campaign iunds- For

men.‘ “ppmves “i ‘h’ “m” which as far as the Dominion is concern- ed, tc all the people. This is all?‘

PM" vcstigation already

made a lease of its rislllfl ill ‘hill

Fell-t “hlklmllhl “ch i“ m“ w“ far as our legislative power ex--

,scss. this Parliament will make the

one case it is an order in council and in the other it is Parliament.

Mr. Garland (Bow Rlverb-Under this country. what form of management will the

honorable

Acthavs indicated what n omnou to

hydro electric plant in that prov

CANADA'S HONOR UNPURCHAS ABLE

reorganization of the under the circumstances

h and conditions as will continued PTOBIBSB 0f

it

‘of this country cannot be

rs or any millions of dollars

kind. I want to be fa-lr

opted for the purpose

such delusion.

NO SAW-DFF CLAIM

BI‘

f-

{nlne years the Liberal party was i

9° about campaign funds knows

'° party in power ls always able to ob- mendment was made at the

‘tain them with readiness.

V" contributions that are made,

zthe party in power is best able

ill the attend to affairs because it has! “saws. to do great injury to thosei in pie who desire to stick their noses into everybody else‘: business for the purpose of ascertaining just what their neighbors get or did not ct. How many men who listened flciarlss in the

election funds of the last general will M last Oonvsntilorl asking that

gwho are carrying on business

N0 ROYAL COMMISSION I do not. propose to rhould be a roving commission

I

Mr. Euler-Would it not be com- petent for Parliament or for the Government of Canada by purchase; llty. to take the place of the sharehold-

Mr. Bennettt~l had thought that question would be ‘asked. The lease from the province of Quebec nat- urally provides that that province must concur in any alienation or transfer of that property and they won't exercise their own discretion in that regard. But I have no reas- on to believe they desire the Dom- authorize the diversion of water 1mm o; Canada m he operating a from the stream to the extent to lll‘°' lnce; neither have I any intention vised. namely. 40.000 second leal- of asking that House m: authority we shall provide for those people to do m

bonafidc money into his proposition under the debent- of $30,000,000. This shall be carried out under such terms and Governor-in- Ccuncil may approve. This statute DIO- Governor-in-

Lastly, there might be coml-‘llela

have alluded, namely, by the crea- tlon of a new condition by act of this Parliament under such terms

ensure the the work of the enterprise and make it clear for all time that any concessions that may have been attained with the thought ln the minds oi those who attained them it was l ecessary to expend hundreds of thousands of dollars for that purpose are negat- lved absolutely and positively, and that the honor of Parliament and bought

and sold for any sum like $100,000 of that

about that. It lhas not been suggested that the honor of this Parliament was bart- . ered or sold, but it has been sug- gested by those who paid the mon- ey they believed it could be secur- ed in that way and that payment of money was the way to be ad- of attaining the end they had in mind. This legislation will cure them of any

One word more. The submission to the commltte was broad. It has been suggested that a saw-mil W05 arrived at with respect to some o! the work of the committee. The lee was not investigatill! leci- llfll‘ “mild "l" belmwed t‘) the ‘campaign funds. so-callcd; the com- mittee was investigating this un- st night the right honorable gentleman (Mr. Macken- ore trying to get

power. Anyone who knows anything