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EDWARD WHELAN]

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A WEEKLY JOURNAL OF POLITE

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Chis is true Liberty, when Free-born Men, having to advise the Public, may speak free ——euRtPwes.

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CHARLOTTETOWN, PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND, MONDAY, JU

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OS, LITERATURE AND NEWS.

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NE 15, 1857.

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[EDITOR anp PUBLISHER.

No. 50.

Vou. VI. Colonial Legislature. i i i i HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY.

Wepnespax, April 1, 1857. AFTERNOON SITTING.

THE LOAN BILL. ( Continued.)

Mr. COOPER believed there was no one more desirous than he was that the question before the House should be settled; but he was afraid that the present Bill would not seitle it satisfactorily, and he had some objections to make to it ; but he would not oppose its going to Committee. He had formerly prepared a Bill of a similar nature, which he intend- ed to have brought forward when the House went into Committee on the present Bill that it might be considered in connection with it. Ashe wasa person that could not easily retain in his memory the ideas which he might have, and as the subject was of so much importance, he had committed his opinions to paper; but it had been hinted that he would be interrupted in reading them, as it was not allowed to read a speech in the British Parliament. He granted that in a House composed of 600 members, such a course would not be neces- sary, nor would it be necessary where there were many good speakers, and every subject was well explained before it was put to the vote ; but such was not the case with the question before the House. He had thought it necessary to have his opinions written on that question.; and he would leave it to the House to say whether he might read what he had written or not. It had been a precedent in the House before his time, that a member of the House might read a speech, pro- vided it contained his own ideas, was his own composition, and written in his own hand-writing. [Goon ; goon.”] [The hon. member proceeded to read as follows :]

When I understand that the Home Government were dis- posed to guarantee a Joan to purchase the Township lands, [ expected that the purchase would be made under such regu- Jations that any conscientous person might agree to. But the Bill before us to empower the Goverament to borrow £100,- 000 sterling, provides that the money is to be given for land according to the Purchase Act, in the same manner as the public money was given for the Worrell Estate, viz., to pur- chase forfeited lands without investigating the titles, as the Act requires, which purchase has met with the public dis- approbation. But some of us are pledged, that if the loan is accepted, it shal] be applied in such a manner as cannot fail to give general satisfaction; and in that case, the Bill will

have to undergo considerable alterations to mect the |

requirements.

it will be recellected, that as often as we have had the land question before us, the Hon. the Col. Secretary, (to justify the Government measures for the purchase of forfeited jand) read exiracts froma Bill which passed the House of Assembly in the year 1841, to show that it was me who first proposed to purchase the land for the settlement of the tenantry, and as | was the author of the first Purchase Bil!, | ought to support the Government in the way they intend to purchase the land, and sell ittothe people. It is therefore necessary for me to explain the principles of the Bil] which I introduced, and the reasons | had for so doing, whicli wil! enable hon. members to give their opinicn as to whether it would be better to adopt the principles of that Bill, which is for the Minzsters to purchase the and for the crown, instead of us borrowing money to purchase forfeited lands without investigating the ttles.

The reascns why the Ministers should purchase the lands for the crown are these. When Governor Fanning and others usurped an ownersaip over the forfeited lands, instead of revesting them in the crown according to the Royal instructions, the Colonial Min:ster not only allowed this act of usurpation to pass without inquiry, or objection, but acknowledged the usurpe:s as the proprietors ; and as often as the people com- plained that they were oppressed by persons holding over the lands contrary to the conditions of the grants, the Ministers

grants; and therefore a provision had to be inserted in the Purchase Act, to save the honor of the crown, viz., that the titles shall be investigated before any purchase is made. Now, || beg the attention of hon. members to this fact, that the | | Purchase Act is to bear two constructions,—a construction in | England, that the titles shall be investigated, and a construction inthis Island, that it is only the transfers, but not the titles } which are to be investigated ; and therefore, this Act to borrow money, which is to be disposed of under the purchase Act, viz, {to buy forfeited lands without investigating the titles, is a — of wide extent. We may rest assured, that the British /Parliament would not consent, nor the Queen in Council | authorize Ministers to indorse our bills for money to be given | away for forfeited land, without investigating the titles ; therefore, if we were to agree to this Bill to borrow £150,000, we would deceive the British Parliament, the Queen in Council, and our own constituents,—involve the Colony in debt and ourselves in disgrace, to borrow money to be given to defaulters, who ought to be made to refund what they have unlawfully taken, instead of receiving a reward for their dishonesty. Therefore, the clause for the investigation of titles, is the foundation of the Land Purchase Act; and as there were no titles investigated before purchase, the whole of the Ac:s of the Executive, in the purchase and sale of lands, is without a foundation in law; the debentures given for land, is an embezzlement of the public funds ; to purchase forfeited lands, is giving a premium to dishonest persons to usurp and demand rents for the public lands. The Commissioner for the purchase of such lands, has no authority in Jaw to sell or demand money or security for lands which he purchased without investigating the titles. It, therefore, appears to me the Executive have made a dangerous expirement; for | cannot see in what manner they are to enforce obedience to their Acts, which have no foundation in Jaw. It is therefore my opinion, that unless we are to have a Court of Escheat established, the same as in every other Colony, to investigate the title, the next and the only safe course would be for us to adopt the principles of the Purchase Bill of 1841, and leave it to the Imperial Government to give the landholders whatever compensation they please. Where every art of deception is practiséd, we cannot make a fair or equitable com- promise here. The Executive no doubt believe, that they have a party who will support any measures without regard to law or equity ; but it is to be hoped hon, members have more respect for themselves than to be made the seape-goat for usurpers and _swindlers, to carry away their sins, and allow thera at the same time to carry off the public money.

He then said, | intend to move shat this B.1l (the one which passed in 1841) be committed to the same committee as the other.

Hon. COL. SECRETARY begged leave to correct the hon. member, as not being in order in making such a motion. Some hon. members expressed their opinions on the point, and also the Hon. Speaker, to the effect that the hon. member (Mr. Cooper) was out of order in proposing to have the Bill in question committed to a Committee of the whole House, as it had never passed the Legislative Council, and consequently belonged to that body; but if he wished to bring forward such a Bill, he might copy it and present it to the House.

Mr. COOPER would say a word with regard to the Bill, that the House were accustomed to take up Bills which they had passed, which was the case with the one in question. He could not see that there was anything wrong in his proposal, as the Bill bad been handed to him by the Hon. Col. Secretary, and he thought he was quite at liberty to present it to the House.

Hon. Mr. PALMER suid, he thought the House was hard- ly in a position to pronounce upon the expediency of the measure now before the House. He need scarcely remind hon. members that the accounts relating to the purchase and disposal of public lands in this Island, so far as the Colony had already dealt in them, were lying on the table of the House ; and he would put it to the House whether it would be more just to the country and to individual members, if those accounts were examined, and an opinion first expressed upon them; because he took it for granted that the country at large had a very great curiosity to know how the present Land Purchase Bill had worked, whether profitably or other-

g*ve ibe landholders more and more indulgence, and finally declared, tha: it would be unjust to take the land by Escheat. | Now, as the Colonial Minister had given indulgence to persons who made no use of the land themselves, but acquired an unlawful authority to impose rents and oppress the inhabitants who wanted land, it appeared to me that it was the duty of the Imperial Government to remedy the evil committed by public servants, and that the best method would be for Ministers to purchase the claia.s which their predecessors had given ;— that was, to purchase and resume the land for the crown, and

,ing lands and retailing them out again by the Bill now before

wise. He should therefore suggest, that before the House pledged itself to extend and carry on that system of purchas-

them, they should first take up and examine the practical operation of the present law of the land, and see how far 1t might be working to the benefit of the country, and if it would warrant them in speculating to the very great extent that was now proposed by the Bill before the House. If the ac- counts were satisfactory—if it turned out that the land

sell it to the people at a price which they might pay in a few years. Therefore, the objections which Ministers had made to the establishment of a Court of Escheat, were adopted as | the preamble to the Biil.. Because, if the reasons given by Ministers, were good to show cause why a Court of Escheat, should noc de establisied, the same reasons were equally good to show that as Ministers had given indulgence to defaulting Eraniees, to hold over forfeited lands against the rights of the

inhabitants, and had deprived the Colony of a court wherein to | result plainly to the coufitry in order to know whether the

bring such matters to trial, the Imperial Government was in| duty bound to recover by purchase or other lawful means, the claims which Ministers had wrongfully given. ‘Therefore, the enactments in that Bill are,—that the crown should purchase and resume the lands, and se!! them in tracts fit for settlement and cultivation ; and to re-imburse the Government, the tenants were to pay for their farms at the rate of Gs. per acre for the best land, 5s. for second quality, and 4s. for third quality. Therefore the main features of the Bill are these: The Imperial Government might give the landholders whatever price or compensation they were entitled to, but the tenants were to pay the fixed price according to quality ; the crown to hold the land as security for whatever money might be advanced, and the tenants to have ten years to pay principal and interest. There was no debt to be

incurred on the Colony, nor one party made liable to pay for |

another. If Mj d ; 5 . rower oe, Serco, Senperces Sy giyeag | proper matter to discuss while the Speaker was in the chair.|to do. Had he not approved of the loan in the answer to

unlawful indulgence to defaulters, the Bill gave them an opportu- nity to recover mistakes at a small cost. Such is the Bill which

was prepared by me, and passed by the House of Assembly in the | should be discussed freely, and that hon. members might have useless for hon. members to attempt to take any notice of yeer 1841. It was an exsy matter to setti2 the land question in| an opportunity to give their opinion fully and particularly the document which he had read, for it was just a hash-up of the Canada, where the grantees had a good and wel! defined title ; upon them, which could sot be done except in Committee of Escheat, and he supposed if the House went into committee | pen

purchase system had worked advantageously to the country at large they would have sufficient grounds to go upon, and to warrant them in embarking in the same measure to the ad- ditional extent which it was now proposed to do by the present Bill. He put it to the good sense of the House, whether they should not first take up the accounts of the Commissioner of Public Lands, and carefully investigate them, and give the

working of that measure, so far as it had gone, was deemed satisfactory and therefore that they might go on to a greater

| from persons holding over against the express conditions of the pounds, shillings, and pence, to warrant him in saying that

extent in the present Bill. He thought it was requisite that | the house should first come to a decision with reference to! those accounts; because hon. members would or would not! feel justified in their conduct by the state of those accounts ; | and it would not do very well for hon. members hereafter to | be asked, should the present measure turn out to be an/| unprofitable and unpopular one, why did you embark in| this new undertaking, and pass this new law? Because in| such case he thought they would be placed in a very awkward | situation. Now, he did not want at that stage of the! proceedings to go into the details of the accounts, which would | take up some little time, and he did not think it would be a

They comprised very extensive dealings, and he thought they

because no person had an interest in upholding the large granis the Whole House. Therefore, he thought it was proper that |

but the proprietors themselves, anda fair compensation could be | . : ; Gael by law 00 on cquivaloct Ve hai, gratia tad censennebiiy | they should investigate those accounts, and see whether they |

no unprincipled persons could take advantage to gain a fortnne by | Were warranted in speculating to the extent proposed by the

forestalling the Government. But jt is far more difficult to Ptesent Bill. He would refrain from going into those accounts, Secretary) thought it would be derogatory to the House to) £624 11s. 6d. ;

those accounts were not satisfaetory.

Hon. COL. SECRETARY rather thought that the hon. member had allowed the time to slip over for having those accounts submitted to a committee. They have been before the House for nearly a fortnight; and the order of the day had been to go into this Bill yesterday week, when there was a call of the House fur that purpose. Yesterday, too, when the order of the day was postponed till to-day, there had been no objections made ; but when the Bill came before the committee, the hon. member was for discharging it, which would be to defeat the Bill. He also said, he was not satisfied with those accounts; but the accounts were very minute, containing the names of those who purchased land,

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Mr. YEO said, he never came iuto the House for emolu- ments; and if he voted against the Lill, he would vote against his own interests ; but if he should vote for the Bill, he would not be an honest man. Where was the money to come from, to pay for borrowing money to buy land? There were thousands of people who could not pay their rent ; how then were they to pay for their land? The Bill might answer the private ends of some persons; but it would be ruinous to the country. He thought if they passed the Bill, they would bring upon themselves the curse of their children and grandchildren, He had experience in such matters, having bought a good deal of land ; be had bought it cheaply and sold it cheaply, and had never made anything of it. There had not been better times in the memory of man, than

the number of acres purchased, the amount per acre, the amount paid, and the balance due; the whole accounts amounting to nearly £14,000. When the sums were given, what then did the hon, member want? Did he wish to have every person who purchased land before him, in order to give an account of his stock? He (Hon. Col. Secretary) did not see what further information the members of the opposition wished, or what they desired to inquire into, Those accounts had nothing at all to do with the present Bill. The hon. member had stated that the Land Purchase Bill had not given satisfaction to individuals; he (Hon. Col. Secretary) supposed that was to the tenantry ; but many of them had been greatly benefitted by it, some of them having purchased land under it for 12s, 6d. per acre, which formerly would have cost them £3 per acre. Petitions had also been received from the tenantry desiring an extension of the benefits of the Bill. The assertion that the Bill had not given satisfaction was not founded upon facts ; because there was no tenant in the country complaining of the Land Purchase Bill. He was not going to trouble himself very much about the matter; it was now fairly before the people at large, who well knew the motives of the hon. member for obstructing the Bill. Though the accounts proved highly satisfactory, yet the hon. and learned member for Charlotte- town would not approve of the present Bill ; therefore, why should those persons, who were anxious to have the matter settled, to be hindered by that hon. gentleman? ‘The measure did not require that he (Hon. Col. Secretary) should enter into any explanation in reference to the working of the Worrel Estate, the accounts relating to which were plain and before the House. In reference to what the hon. member for King’s County, Mr. Cooper, had said—which he could not cal! a speech,—but to the statements which he had read, he must make a few remarks whilst he was on his legs. Tbat hon. member had endeavoured to persuade the House, that the purchase of the Worrel Estate had not given general satisfaction ; but as he had answered that point in reply to the remarks of the hon. and learned member for Charlottetown he would not now enter into that subject. The hon. member had also been pleased to allude to a Bill which he had prepared, and had stated the reasons why it was introduced to purchase from the Home Government. The people, however, did not require a Bill to purchase from the Home Government. He had further said that the difference between the previous Bill and the present one was, that under the former the Home Government were to purchase the land, and the tenantry were to pay for it afterwards ; but he (Hon. Col. Secretary) thought that the tenantry would get far better terms by the present Bill; besides, there was no guarantee that the Home Governmeut would accept the former Bill. The hon. member had also tried to make it appear that the present Bill was a swindle and a cheat ; but if so under this Bill, such was also the case under his Bill. The tenantry might now pay more for some description of land; but some of them paid less than was provided for by the Bill alluded to. Mention had also been made of the investigation of titles; but every hon, member in the House, was aware that under the Land Purchase Dill there was to be no investigation of the original grant, but only of the transfers. That was the investigation which took place, and he could tell the hon. member that there was an investigation ; and perhaps very few persons took the trouble that the Attorney General had taken in investigating the original grants from the time of the purchase of the Worrel Estate down to the present time; therefore, he thought the hon. member was not warranted in making his assertion respecting the Government that they were now cheating the

ople. He was astonished that the hon. member, who he considered had some sense and reason, should make such | statements, and endeavor to have them go abroad, that the Government bad no authority to sell the lands in question, because, forsooth, they had not made such an investigation as he thought proper. He (Hon. Col. Secretary) would say that such assertions were for nothing else than to deceive the poor deluded tenantry in that portion of the Island which the hon. member represented. He would ask the hon. member, if he had not come out in a phamphblet in favor of the Land “Purchase Bill, saying that, in the absence of Escheat, it was the best Bill that could be passed for the benefit of the tenantry. He (Hon, Col. Secretary) had never praised that Bill; he had never written a word in his life in praise of it. But when the hon. member came out in favor of the Bill in the pamphlet, he lauded it to the skies, until he got the people to vote for him, and why then did he come forward now and oppose the Bill, because he chose to put a certain construction on a part of it? He contended that the hon. member nad changed his opinions from one day to | another, till the people would not know what he was going

had been the last four or five years; and farmers in other countries had made their fortunes; but here they could not pay their rents. He was sure that no hon. member in the House, who gave the question consideration, could go for the present Bill; he would defy him to do so, because he had as much experience iu the country as most people. He went from one part of the country toanctker, and thus knew the circumstances of the people as well as most persons. The Hon. Col. Secretary carried on his business in Charlotte- town where peop'e could easily get money for their produce ; but in the country, they could not pay their rents. It was then out of the question to think that the proposed scheme would be successful ; he knew what the end of it would be— a great tax upon the country. Many had left the country, and ethers would follow, if taxation were increased. It was seid that no petitions had come in against the Biil; but what were they going to do with petitions? If hon. members bad made up their minds, there was no use in petitioning. But they knew the miads of the people on the subject, who said what a thing it was! it would never pass the House. [f hon. members lived ten years longer, it would be seen to be a runious thing to the country. R. Lamp, Rep.

Hon. COL, SECRETARY.—If after having so long an experience, as the hon. member (Mr. Yeo) says he has had, and finding so much opposition on the part of the tenantry to pay rents, there is no doubt the Government would purchase his land from him. (Hon. Mr. Palmer—Would he sell it 2) [I dare say he would, (Mr. Yeo—Yes; for one quarter of the amount I gave for it.) The motion, however, is, | think, untimely. ;

Mr. COOPER.—I am confident, it would be a source of great satisfaction to the country to have the accounts of tho Worrell Estate investigated, and I will vote for the motion:

Hon. COL. SECRETARY.—It can be done when the Report of the Committee on Public Accounts is presented. We can then appoint a Special Committee, if desirable.

The question on Hoa. Mr. Palmer's motion was then put, and lost on the following division: —

Ayes—Hons. T. H. Haviland, Palmer, Longworth, Mont- gomery, Lord, Messrs. Heath Haviland, Cooper, Laird, Yeo and McIntosh—10,

Nays—Hons. Col. Secretary, Col. Tressurer, Whelan, Wightman, Mooney, Messrs. Dingwell, McDonald, Clark, Muirhead, Perry and Munro—11.

Hon. T. H. HAVILAND.—The Bill under consideration professes to have for its object the borrowing of £100,000 sterling, for the purpose of converting leasehold into freehold tenures. During a residence of forty years in this Island,L have had every opportunity of witnessing the hardships which the new settler has to contend with in hewing out of the forest a scanty subsistance for himsolf, and, in many cases, a young and helpless family. He has at all times possessed my fullest sympathy ; and whenever I have been placed in cireumstances which enabled me to improve his condition, 1 have evineed as great a disposition to do so, as any member who holds a seat in this House, not excepting the Champion of Escheat himself. I voted for the grant of £1,000 to the Royal Agricultural Society, and would readily have supported the motion of the hon. member from Queen's County, Mr. Mooney, of increasing the grant to £2,000, if L had thougbt it would have been carried, not, as was insinuated by the hon. member from King’s County, Mr. Cooper, from any motive of personal advantage, as 1 am not a farmer, but because I deem all such dispositions of the public money as productive of incalculable benefit to the farming interests, and they are inseparable from the general welfare of the Colony. I have always expressed myself favorable to the freehold tenure, and I would like to see every settler in the Island a frecholder, provided so desirable an object could be effected with justice to other parties; but I will never con- sent to tax the present frecholder, who has acquired bis farm by persevering industry and hard labor, for the exclusive

| benefit of the leaseholder. I approve of the principle of

the Bill now before the House, and if I could be brought to believe that it would prove a self-sustaining measure, it should have ny hearty support. But we must judge of the future by past experience, and how does the question stand? Let us look at the late Worrell Estate, and its results under the management and supervision of the Government for the last three years. We have just been refused a Committee to in- vestigate the accounts in the office of the Commissioner of Public Lands; and as I consider the statement now lying ou the Clerk’s tehle, without any vouchers in support of its correctness, a mere ignis fatuus, cooked up for the purpose of hoodwinking the House, I will take advantage of the only authentic medium which is open to me, viz : the annexed Reports of the Auditors of Public Accounts, to show how far the self-sustaining principle has suceceded with regard to the receipts and expenses of the Worrel! Estate. It appears, sir, that Jatéin the year 1854, the Worrell Estate was pur-

His Excellency’s specch at the opening the session? It was

on the Bill, he (Mr. Cooper) would move some clause for escheat, and desire to substitute the Bill to which he had_

chased by the Government, for £2,400, when debentures to extent of £1,000 were issudd in part payment. The ex- diture in salaries and other disbursements to 3Ist Jan., 1855, amounted to £140 16s.4d. ; and receipts, £0 18s, 6d. The expenditure for the year ending January Slst, 1856,

alluded in amendment to the present one. He (Hon. Col. | was—interest paid on debentures, £570; salaries, &e.,

purchase from, or compensate, a class of men for claims which Of making remarks on them, until he saw what the opinion take up the investigation of titles in a loan Bill, which should | are founded on the delinquency of public servants. The | and sense of the House might be; and he thought all the be done by another Bill, if by a Bill at a'l.

landholders of this Island could not have held possession of |

members on both sides of the House, would see the propriety |

Mr. COOPER said, he had been called upon to answer |

Cal rieited lands, without the support of Ministers, Governors, | of doing what be proposed, which he bad thrown into words for what he had said in praise ef the Land Purchase Bill.

Colonial Executive, and a majority in the Legislature; and al! | of them have, either through ignorance or design, acted” in direct opposition to the duty which they owed to their sovereign and their constituents ; and now «many are ashamed to own | that they have been upholding aa unprincipled class of men to.

since he came in. It was simply this :— “ That it be an order of the day to go into Committee of the whole house on the said Bill on Saturday next, and that

a Special Committee be appointed to examine into the accounts |

He had supported it, but on condition that the titles were to 3d. ;

be investigated. He had stated when he came into the) House on that occasion, that he would be perfectly ready to agree to give compensation to the proprietors, if the titles

demand and recover renis for land to which they have no title. |and books of the Commissioner of Publie Lands with power had been investigated, The case here in relation to the land Therefore, compensation is required, not only to satisfy cupidity, to attend at his office and to send for persons, papers, aud question, was quite different from what it was in Canada. |

but to conceal the fradulent claims, and give it the colour of a! Just debt. But as the amount of compensation could neither be | fixed nor allowed by law, it is intended to be given contrary to | law, by deceiving the Iinperia! Government and the people in! general. To be abie to see into such crooked transactions, it must | be borne in mind, that the Sovereign could not give assent to an

Act for the Colonial Government to purchase forfeited lands

records, and to report thereon at one or several times with all convenient speed.”

He moved that resolution, and would conclude by only saying, that those accounts were not satisiactory tohim. He did not profess to be a magician at investigitiag intricate accounts; but he thought be had a sufficient knowledge of

‘given »y the officers of the crown. The only way to have the.

Here, the proprietors had no claim except by tbe indulg nce land purchased properly, was to to investigate the titles. | Hos. COL. SECRETARY explained that the titles of the land which the Government had purchased, had bees’ investigated as far a» any title should be investigated.

besides an acknowledged m9 } to As- sessment of £247—making in al! £144) Ils. 64. ‘he re- ceipts for the same period being £2171 9s. id. The ex- penditure for the year ending January 31st, 1857, was— interest paid on debentures, £1190; salaries, &e.. £596 2s. and loss of Land Assessment, £261—making in alt the sum of £2047 2s. 31., exclusive of £2,550 paid in de- bentures for Lot 11, whilst the receipts for the same period amounted only to £1863 13s, 444. —thus making the total receipts, for the sale of Public Lands, to the close of the past financial year, £4,036 Is. 5}d.; and the expenditure and loss of Land Assessment, £3629 10s. 1d.; and if to this sum be added two years interest upon £6,000, the balance yet remaining due to the vendors of the Worrell Estate, the total annual expenditure wil! exceed the feccipts by £143 &:. 74, leaving no provision for the payment of any portion of the purchase money. It is true that there ap-

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