In this interview conducted -'in August. Dennis Cassin neglected to deal with the religious racism within the IRA. he attempted “to instead focus onuthe issues of the class ’struggle within Northern Ireland. A large part

of the class struggle which he speaks about is - between the advantaged and the disadvant- _

aged, repre‘Sented- by the Protestants and the Catholics respectively. (Editor’s note) ’

Reprinted from the New York weekly Tb Guardian. . -

by Karen GelIen “The revolutionary call in the north of Ireland at the moment is for peace," according to Irish Republican. Move,- ment representative Dennis Cassin. “That might 'not sound revolutionary, Cassin noted, “but it- is, because it

provides the only way to go forward with normalpolitiesfihat is, revolution- ary politics, socialist politics. You become totally irrelevant, for example, if you’re talking about—massive unem- ployment when a 100-pound bomb goes off down the street 100 yards away from vou." '

As the fifth anniversary of the 1971 internment without trial . order was marked Aug. 9. the Republican Move- ment, which includes “the 'Sinn Fein Party and the Official Irish Republican Army (IRA), was blanketing the north with leaflets and posters with the key slogan, “Sectarianism- kills workers.” This antisectarianism campaign is aimed, Cassin said. at 'the principal roadblock confronting the liberation movement in Ireland, that of “a divided working class, each seeingthe other as the enemy and killing each other, while the real enemy-British and American Imperialism-is allowed to go scat-free without‘any major attacks being made on it." '

The aSsassination of the New British ambassador in July by the 'Provisionals,“ ‘and ultra-“left” split-off from the IRA, has, in this context, caused a further setback to the moVement. “While I hate the British ambassador as much as ianody. and there are fairly good. Indications that this guy was part of the , British intelligence network," the Republican spokesman explained, “a

_ revolutionary has to be able to account

for his actions and his actions have to‘ be progressive. He must think out the re«fictiOn to what he does as‘well. With this British ambassador, it’sarrogance, 1think-an action that says ‘we can't wait f°r You. the working class,’ and that the Working class is stupid. ' _ - ‘Now, in the southern state they are

lln the process of introducing further

rePressive legislation, and this action

. Will be used as the excuse to do it. In

What way did it reallyattack the basis of e sY-stem in Ireland? It’s the same sort

'Egbaction as these of the Symbionese

. eration Army here. It separates the

- .and served to

“mine-“I! ‘ _- a

. Sinn Fein‘ and the IRA condemn individual terrorism divorced from the needs and consciousness of the masses, 'while' upholding the right to use violence and to wage armed struggle. ‘ ‘It’s only.an armed and trained working class that will be listened ‘to with fespect,” Cassin said. “We realize that the powers in Ireland will not hand us

' the country on. a plate to make it a

socialist republic. We know that in the final analysis we are going to have to defend the gains we have made and

we’re going to have a physically fight '

for the revolution in Ireland, but we, the Irish people, not an isolated elite, will decide when it is‘the right/time to use force, and We will pick the battle- ground.” . ' '

In this period, he continued, the‘

movement is not involved in a military campaign, but is implementing ‘a military policy of “defending any working-class area against incursions by the British army or the Royal Ulster I Constabulary or right-wing mobs of whatever religious persuasion. Also, we will take retaliatory action against the British army or anybody else for

activities against the working class-and we have done that.”

The adventurism of the Provisionals, and the- sectarian killings and repres- sion that they bring in their wake, have led to a significant demoralization of

working class‘and the loss of many '

concrete gains of the earlier mass civil rights movement. Cassin noted. This gives a particular urgency to the present call for peace, he said. “The people have been taken out of the struggle by the Provisionals, they .have no will to resist. Where bifore. if a British army .patrol came along a street the people would be out shouting and jeering, making whistles and catcalls, now, people just sit in their houses, they don't' move. The will to resist has been bombed out of them by the Provisionals and beaten out of them by the British army reaction to the Provisionals. And all you have in Northern Ireland now is two opposing armies fighting, the people are no longer involved in that struggle. Thus, we feel there is no way forward until the violence stops.”

The split in the Irish movement was precipitated in the early 1960s when the IRA. decimated and isolated after, an abortive military campaign on the border of the Southern state, was forced to regroup and make an analysis of its errors. It wasin this period that the organization made a decisive; turn toward an anti-imperialist, working- class .line. “Our only politics was the gun,” Cassin recalled. “We were a military elite, ‘a conspiracy, that couldn't see any further than the end of the gUn.” The movement then under~ stood, he said, that while it had exclusively targeted the British admin- istration-soldiers, judges and the like—in the north, “the, so-called free republic

in the south had been completely taken'

_ over economically by, in the main, BritishEpital. We saw that the south was a neocolbnial state, with the majority of its politicians constituting a comprador class. We then came to the

conclusion that the enemy of the. Irish. people was British imperialism and saw' that the only way to defeat imperialism ‘

was through a revolution. Our definitibn of revolution then became the change of power from one class to, another.” The faction .that became the Provisionals opposed the - goal of a

united, socialist Ireland, and split over _ the decision to build a mass, democratic _

movement in the north. The civil rights movement which was subsequently .formed has a mass, working-class base, focus international

’ . attention-on the oppression of the Irish

people. :

The Republican forces also. at that time began to develop the internation-

. alist outlook that is an important aspect

of its programm today. “We don’t see has being a little parochial struggle,” Cassin told the Guardian. ‘-‘We ’ see ourselves as part of the international struggle against imperialism. We consider ourselves to be part of the third world. Lots of people wouldn’t accept that,” he acknowledged, “but we say we are in actual fact a third. world country-that’s basically what our economy is, and everything else. And

_ we see the rest of the third world as

being our allies. We find from the early 19603 tried very hard to create international solidarity and to interna- tionalize the Irish struggle. We have, for example, supported the Vietnamese struggle for over 12 years; we have consistently supported the MPLA in Angola; and a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization attended an anti-imperialist .festival we organized in Ireland last month... Our movement does not take a hard line vis-a-vis either China or the soviet Union.” ' Commenting on the (international relations of the ProviSionals, Cassin

said, “Like everywhere else, the people

who would be inclined to support them would be the ultra-‘left’ of this country and others. Trotskyist groups such as the Socialist Workers Party and the

International Socialists have given them ‘critical support.’ People of this outlook label the Official IRA ‘Stalinist.’ The Provisionals have a support organiza-

x1e

. _rdvolutioni?yl’§io'iiement“from the fieople, and it hasn’t achieved,

tion in this country which is of the

.ultra-right Irish Americans, very well

organized, and supplying them with a lot of money. Libyan head .of state Col. Qaddafi has come out in support of them.”

Another political movement in Ireland is the pro-Moscow Irish Communist Party (ICP), which until 1970 had two separate parties in the country, one for the north and‘ one of the south. “They thus recognized partition.” Cassin noted, “which left them very weak on the national question." The ICP is a small party with a strong base in the trade union movement in the north, mainly among the Protestant workers. Party members, he said, haye won many high positions within the trade unions, including the post of general secretary of the Irish Trade Union Congress, by having an “economist” line. “They have never educated or politicized the trade union movement," Cassin continued, "and the part is so Moscow-oriented as to be ridiculous- For example, they keep screaming ‘detente, detente, detente,’ without_relating it to the problems of the people of their. city or country. In. 1970, the Communist Party was not able to prevent 5000 shipyard workers in Belfast from laying down their tools, walking off the job 'and marching through the streets demanding the. introduction of internment without

charge or trial. And all of the shop stewards and leaders of the big , engineering unions are members of the communist Party. '

‘ Wriunded demonstrator again! British security forces in northern Ireland?»

Demonstrations took place Aug. 8“in Belfast to protest fifth anniversary of

_"‘lhe‘ Communist Party does not, I believe, have the potential for revolu- tion in Ireland. They do not have the ‘structure, they don’t have a real ’oase

' among the Irish peeple. I think we have

that, and also we have the tradition of

' struggle. We are the descendants of

those who have struggled from 1916 on.

‘ Also, the Communist Party is, as I said,

weak on the national question. They

don’t really adhere to the idea that in an -

oppressed country, nationalism and socialism go hand-in-hand-they extract

/ from Lenin only what they wan .”

Within Sinn Fein and the IRA, there have been some important structural changes recently, in line with the more

' advanced political perspective that has

been developed. “It used to be that the IRA: was ' an elite grOup, separated altogether from the-party-the party was just its fron ,” Cassin explained. “Now, you must be a member of the party before you. can be a member of the IRA-we don’t want any military elitists- and you must adhere to the policies of the Republican Movement." Although Sinn Fein is not a Democratic centralist

internment without trial.

party, “that is the position we are struggling to attain, and we believe we are getting very close.” '

The party is explicitly Marxist and socialist, he said, and “we don’t hide our views, even when contesting for electibns.” Political repression has, however, made the organizational transition difficult. Sinn Fein is a legal v party in the south, while the IRA is' out-lawed-if the two were openly synonymous, Sinn Fein would be forced underground.

With the antisectarian drive as the‘ key, the Republican movement is “organizing around every aspect of the daily life of the people,” said Cassin. “‘Our organization is based in the working-class. Working people are the backbone. of the organization, We’re organizing on a long-term basis, we don’t see the revolution happening tomorrow. We think a revolutionary phase has passed in Ireland-1969-7l- and there’s no sense harping back to the revolutionary momentum of the past. Learn from the past, and move foreward."