APRIL‘ 30,105:

SUBSIDY QUESTION

RE VIE WED IN SENA TE

f (Continued form Page l)

v Manitoba's Subsidies

In 1870 theGovernmerltJof the flgy bought the territory known as Rupert's Land from the Hudson’; Bay Company. Ind I'll the same year the Province o! Manitoba was es- tablished. The money paid to the Hudson's Bay Company, together with the cost of aurveyihs the lands. policing the territory. and other in- cidental . became a charge on pig public» revenues of Canada. when Manitoba became a province she did not get the ownership of thc lands and natural resources within her boundaries. The Crown in Call- sda retained them and gave to ev- ery marl who would take up a home- stead in Manitoba 160 acres of land free. Under these circumstances Manitoba had to get certain subsidies from the Federal treasury to enable her to set up housekeeping and meet tho necessary expenses, bu; none of these subsidies was earmarked as a payment in lieu of public lands.

In 1873 Prince Edward Island came info the Confederacy. She had no public lands, and never had any. Many years before that time the Crown of England gave them all a- way to n few favourites in the Old Country. If the Crown in Canada had bought out the English/garoprict- ors in the same way that it bought the western lands, and had given homesteads to the settlers in Prince Edward Island free, it would have purs-uedfih kllciple, in respect to that province, the course followed in the case of Manitoba, but it did not do this. The Federal Government gave to Prince Edward Island g, sub- sidy in lieu of public lands of $45,- 000 a year, and agreed p0 loan the Provincial Government any sum up to $800,000 it might wish to bonow to buy out the proprietors, upon which sum five per cent interest would be charged, and deducted from this subsidy. This borrowing power was

_-_a-_-

Period of their lives, are much gross. Bi" than in the other provinces. Ad- ditional local taxation is therefore out of the question. With our preg- elnt revenue we cannot make anything like adequate provision for the sick and the Door amongst us. We can. not think of introducing the 01¢ is, pension scheme, which several of the Other provinces have adopted or are “dwtlng- We "hhilt pay our school teachers salaries that will at all colu- Dare with the salaries which the men and women ill the- teaching Profession in the other provinces re- ccive. Tile consequence is the; our educational system was on the eve of disorganization-perhaps dim-up. llim-rlfllfily. Bud a crisis was narrow- ly averted. Our teachers threatened to lesion in a body if their salaries were not increased. Under the“ circumstances, would it be unreason. alllt fill‘ us t0 ask. and expect, that we be immediately pug upon nn cllllflllly with the other landless prov- inces in the matter of subsidies? Surely not. Appeal To Justice

Now allow me to compute what that would mean. The other prov- iiiws are receiving $1.50 per head of their population, in lieu 0f public lands. We receive six cents per head -a difference of $1.44. some of ‘the other provinces received their gnh. sidy on an assumed population great- er than the actual at the start. At one time our population was over 109.000; it is now loss than 100,000. We think the decline in numbers has been caused in part at least, by the discrimination from which we have suffered since we entered the Union. \'i'0uld it be fair first to treat us with injustice and then to punish us for all time for the consequences of that injustice? Surely not. Under the cir- cumstances, l think that in all flir- ness our subsidy should be comput- ed on a population of 100,000; and this would give u: an additional-sub-

to emphasise here and now, as strong-

"ro rwelvins. did she ssll any other Prfivkice to- assist her? And-if ‘she did not, why should we? Her claims W" 5° iillt that they could not be Wllihhfildi- and ours one whit less 1118i? 0r do sire and geography de- termine the quality of justice? It is true we cannot get an ex nslon of our boundaries. but that is all the more reason why we should get equality oi financial treatment,

4 In November, 1027, there was held ll» Qillwl a Dominion-Provincial Conference at which many important subleots were discussed, but. nothing was settled as regards subsidies or public lands. Certain of the dele- Edit! "Om. some 01 the prgvjnggg seemed to take a patronizing attitude towards Prince Edward Island, which, l" ml’ OPlIIlOII. was altogether unnec- essary and very unfortunate. I wish

l! as I can, that Prince Edward ls- land is not lnokln, ‘for aims or doles, bl" ll "kl"! for what lhe believes to be long over-due justice-such lus- tice as Manitoba has received since the early days of her existence; such lustice as Saskatchewan and Alberta have received since they were born. And this leads me to the conclusion that interprovincial conferences arc not the best occasions to consider and settle all such questions as we are now discussing. The Parliament of Canada is, of course, the most felifeiehlill-llle and authoritative body that can be convened in Canada, and, in the last analysis, is the only body which can determine the pol- icy the country should follow. To the Parliament of Canada I therefore make my appeal. Moreover. not the least of the duties of the Senate of Canada is the protection of the rights of minorities and small prov- inces. It is fitting, therefore, that I should introduce my appeal in this honourable House, and I do so with confidence. _ . ~ \

I have endeavoured to present my oase briefly and clearly, but in my desire to be brief, I may have sacri- ficed clas-ity. and if so, I shall wei- come any question or questions that honourable members may ask me, calculated to clear up any points that may need elucidation. And now I re- spectfully ask my honourable lead- er, the representative of the Govern-

THE CHARLOTTETOWN GUARDIAN-

90.000. I thought lr. was 88,000. But. whatever the population is, there are remedies which the province may take to improve its financial posi- tion. The PrLme Minister oflNova Scotia, Hon. Mr. Rhodes, said the other day that they would have a deficit of some $800,000 in Nova Sco- tfa this year, if I am not mistaken. and that they were in financial straits. He thought if a referendum were taken as to whether that pro- vince should conform with other pro- vinoes in having Government control of the liquor traffic, the result might benefit the provincial exchequer to such an extent as to wipe out the deficit. I have no doubt that if they had some kind of liquor control m Nova Scctia it would settle many of their difficulties. The Government of the Province of Ontario last year received $40,000,000 for the liquor they sold, and thc profits were quite substantial. The Province of Quebec has made on an average between $4,- 000,000 and $5,000,000 a year, which has helped considerably, Other pl")- vinces that have liquor control have dcno very vgcll also.

Liquor "Not So Scarce"

The people of Prince Edward Is- land want to enjoy the luxury of prohibition; yet, honourable gentle- men, liquor is not so scarce there as YOU mlEht. think; If the honourable gentleman would apply to his own Government to take the control of liquor into their own hands, they would havc a remedy. The honour- able gentleman knows that there arc people in the province who drink. They drink without paying anything to the province, whether they get it through booticggers-

Hon. lilr. ll-nndurnnd: Moonshiners.

Hon. liir. (3.1. ' oz" from moon shincrs, as ti: maple leader says, or in any o. way. However, there is one l-c y.

Then I a011, honourable gentlemen. is it not an anomaly to have 90,000 people-the population of a ward or so in Toronto or ill ltlontreal-gov- ernod as they are in Prince Edward Island? That, is something really ought to be considered. Not-

that '

withstanding their small population they have a governor. and houses ofl

ther by the Government, which ~pflid for it out of current rev- enue, or by the tenants themsel- yes.

One of the terms and condi- tions of that province's entry into Confederation was;..

This is a citation:

That as the Government of Prince Edward Island holds no land from the Crown, and con- Eeqllflitly enjoys no revenue from that source for the con- struction and maintenance of local works, the Dominion Gov- ernment shall pay by half-year- ll! instalments, in advance, to the Government of Prince Edward Island, forty-five thousand dol. lals Pore annum, less interest Bl five Per cantum Per annum, upon any sum not exceeding eight hundred thousand dollars, ‘which the Dominion Government may advance to the Prince Edward Is- land Government for the our. chase of lands now held by large proprietors.

I quote again from the Report;

Advances were drawn by the Plilvllll‘? ilflfllhst the sum allow- ed in the foregoing provision to nearly the full extent for the Purpose of buying out the re- mhlhlhil absentee proprietcrships

and transferring the lands to their own settlers. In the nature of things, the

transaction was a, costly one to the province, both from the point of view of its administrative ex- pence and loss of interest. There was. in addition, a net cash loss Bl $190,000 on the principal out- lo-y. The Government submitted to us a detailed claim showing a very considerable gross loss on these land transactions.

The consequence has been that, in point of fact, the province has never had any beneficial enjoy- ment of the provision which was made for them “in lieu of public lands" 0!] their entry into Con- federation, and they argue that the special circumstances sul'- rounding. thc transaction are so different from what was in con- templation both by the Domin- ion Government and themselves

‘when the provision was made, that they should not be deprived of their annual payment in its full amount.

The claim is, of course. a very belated one, but ll; is advanced.

as we understand it, 0n very broad equitable grounds rather than upon strict contract. We

think it must be looked at in the

the financial situation in conjunc. tion with the transfer to those pm. vinces of their natural resources.

N0 Legislation Th]! Session My honourable friend has stressed

is entitled to an increased subsidy. or to better terms, in accordance with those granted to the landless prov- inces of the West. I suggest to my honourable friend that the Maritime Provinces, and his province in pa‘;- lticular, will lose nothing by await- ing the final settlement between the Government and the “Iestern Prov- inces, for whatever benefits accrue to those provinces in the final settle- mfihi "my have a beneflcent effect upon hb own province, and may af- ford stronger arguments than he canadvance today for a final ad- justmcnt of the claims of Prince Edward Island.

The honourable gentleman asks whether legislation will be brought in this session for the settlement of the lust claim of Prince Edward island. I must inform my honourable friend

19791100 with the westcln provinces] with a. view to a final settlement of;

the point that Prince Edward Island _

the settlement with the

a settlement with the Western Pro-

ernlnent is discussing‘ this

slderaticn. Hon. Ml‘. Hughes: Have I right to say a few words in reply?

that I do not believe such legislation I Sggkgwhgwgfp

there is failure or delay in reaching‘ i

to effect some adjustment of the sit- l

Sepalamy with Blwh 0i the Dlilvlhce-‘i Dominion Government

i“ m” weil- "m?" ll ‘$971195 l0 l" owner and administrator of the IC",ll1iOl"i of Canada-is like a falnil adjustment with the Maritime Pro- sources, But, for a number of leafs consists of nine lnculbcrs, all settled "lllcf-i- elm "hill all 0f them “illl helthe Dominion Government acted ascn the family e. heard and their views taken into con- , lf- they were the absolute pygmy-r, in? me ‘amm- are

5 the prairie provinces. Thcy granted‘ where thcy are at a great; disadvan- ior the co-“i- tqge as compared with other mom- structiorl of railwaysfand acted gcil- bcrs of thc family, there must illev- iiably be adjustments in order that ilzc whole family may be contented

llleilarge parcels of land

mm- M" D““l“"""l= 1 hm mil erally as absolute owners in Ice of sure that my honourable friend has ‘ 3,95,, resourcgg A5 fay as 1 am con- h risht to relJly f0 Eh BMW" ml1~l° cerned, and in the light in which I and may share equally in the general

MQTQR Oll. In Use the World Over

PONDER THIS! l: the worlcPa ‘|{:;ding' motor anu acturers _ nitely spec‘ y

‘ Caflrol as the motor oil that rwill tzfi-o the best job of lubricating the motor!

sel with the present Government of, House that tho aunt-sphere w.“ so I have a strong lln— agreeable that the Government feels can be forthcoming ‘m5 5553mm he‘ll1ression that the Province of Sas-' it has the consent of the provinces cause I understand that the Maritime kgwhewan m pfesgnflng 1,5 c353 hem w mowed ,,_-

claims will l"? liken "P Only flllwfficlaimcd an absolute legal right l-3'Ci£illl15 at an c _ we5l9l7llits natural resources. Its represen- equitable as vvml Pmvmces- All MSW" lh the BfllTm-ltativcs argued that under the Brlt- lllCnlG that would appeal to all the “u” W011“ °l “"159 mean ‘l-lllllqish North America Act the Fcclelzil provinces. I am more infir". ~11 in suchasetlicmentlsscon tobereach-igovel-nment were trustees of those cquny mm, I am h, [he ma. a» 6d; hill ll (1095 hot lfillow l-hB-t ll i resources, but never owners. cvcn at pects of thc-cause, for "the lrtlcr klii- the time when that part of the coull- v eih, but the spirit givcth life,“ try was practically unsettled, vinces the Department of Financcmheregure they Qguld not have will ml "l l° “Wk and 9111165110"? l signed the resources to the province. to create the imp: There is a vast difference bctwlccn ' asking for anything to which we are uation with the Maritime Prflvlhillfi- l the position of a province that OWNS not entitled in equity and in jtusticc. All I can tell my honourable friend - its lands and other irsiurcl resources as an inlcgrnl putt of this Immin- is that, just as the Dominion Gov- E end the position o1 one which is lcn, lhilllellmerely a cestui que trust, with the

and l

the

a setticrlclq of all (late, and to make as local adjust.-

I wish only to repeat that we ae- - Prilico Edward Island do mi clrsli~c fiicn lhrll, \vc are

ll‘ I 11:21: cilrr a hoznclga illustra- llflllfll ‘lion, iL sccnls to me that thc Dom-

sidy of $144,000.

lion. Mr. Casgrain: What l; the population now?

Mr. Hughes: About 90,000.

In 1912 Manitoba demanded that she be put on an equality with Sas-

excrcised by the Province to the amount of $782,402.33, which reduc- ed the subsidy in lieu of public lands . to less than $8,000 a year, or say six cents per head 01 the population.

‘by the GOVETYImEhY-v hill I fillplmifliconstlue the law, I should never Ln? pros rily. lhfli by li-‘Bvé 0f lhe Him-SE he Fllfll’ , satisfied with any settlement as be- Tllcro is no doubt at all that thc put further questions, lfwccn the two westerly Prairie Pro- central provinces, Ontario and Que-

Hon. Mr. Hughes: I have no tur-"vinces and the Dominion Govern- bec, have enormous natural resour- ther questions to put. " lnient with reference to the natural‘ ccs; and the same is true of British ircsourccs, that did not recognize the ‘_ Columbia and, tllougli perhaps to a

gcilzral financial revision or re- fllliustilten; which we are sug- ng for the Maritime Prov-

. -95.

ment in this Chamber, to give me an answer, if he can today; if not then at the earliest convenient date, Prince Edward Island cannot wait and should not be asked l0 wait till even

parliament, and all the other para-l, phernalia of government. Nova ECO-l tia also has a comparatively small; population, and it is not incroaslngq and if something is not, done with}

Reviews’ 1027 Conference ,

‘ Discrimination

In 1882 Manitoba claimed and re- lzived a subsidy of $45,000 a year- iii lieu of public lands, which was more than 72 cents per head of her pop- ulation. Discrimination against Prince Edward Island was then started, and it has been continued and a; fre- quent intervals increased ever since, as I shall abundantly prove. In 1885 Manitoba claimed and was granted. in lieu of public lands, 9, subsidy of $100,000 sfyear, equal to more than 92 cents per head of her population. The discrimination sgainsy, Prince Edward Island was thus increased. In 1005 Saskatchewan and Alberta were formed into provinces. Each re- celved in lieu of public lands a sub- sidy of $375,000, 0r $1.50 per head 0h an assumed population of 250,000, but in the case of Alberta the assumed population was much greater than the actual. This subsidy was to be increased to these provinces as their population would increase. Each cf these provinces received also, in lieu of public lands, the capital sum o1 $458,750.‘ Both Manitoba and Prlfiffi Edward Island were now discrimin- ated against, but Prince Edward ls- land enormously so.

In 1912, Manitoba demanded to be Pllt on an equity with Saskatchewan and Alberta, and hel- demand was granted, because it was manifestly lust: and, more than that, her h1- creased subsidies were dated back to i908.

Has Benched A Crisis

Prince Edward Inland mu remains Whorwlhs was in 1873, receiving six eenio per heed of her population, it would be hard to find in the history of the modern ‘world a more pro- nounced example of discrimination, and the results are whet mlshi. h!" been expected. Prince Edward ls- land has now reached whet mllht be termed nlmolt o crisis in her history. Notwithstanding economy ln every "Inert-ment of the Government eer- vliw. lllil the levying of all the lohl taxation the people can bear, we oil- IM agile ends meet. We are lhlhl flame into am m the time, and the out yobs- our total eiuivliillfli" Iloeedbd our Mel revenue by nearly $800,000. This is a lerlolu mat-w‘ for so mall a provisos, and if the Dominion were in Q similar financial WIN“: it would mean a deficit of ‘over can hundred millions of dollars.

'; ‘lfopulatlon omens;

‘ ll dwmclihl Ill thf

katcilcwan and Alberta. and, in or- dcr tha‘ her equality might be real, that her additional subsidy be dated back. Her demand was granted and the principle of dating back to make equality absolute was then establish- ed. 1*. cannot be denied to Prince Edward Island now.

From 1882 to 1885 Manitoba re- ceived 60 cents per head of popula- lion more than Prince Edward Is- land received. This would mean for ihethree ycars a capital sum of $198,000. From i885 to i905 Manl- toba received 86 cents per head of population more than Prince Edward Island received. This would mean for these twenty years a capital sum of $1,720,000, From i905 to the present year, Saskatchewan and Alberta have been receiving $1.44 per head of population more than Prince Ed- ward Island has received. This would mean for these twenty-four years a capital sum of $3,456,000, or a total capital slun of $5,374,000. which at 5 per cont interest would

yisld an additional subsidy c1 268.700. This 268,700 would b0 the l’ Erect oil the ll‘-

rears, and the $150,000 we are en- titled to from this date forward would make our future subsidy, in lieu of public lands, $418,700 a. year. Furthermore, when the Prillrl! Provlnccs get their natural resour- ccs, if they retain the subsidies as well, we shall be entitled to a Pl?- ment. in proportion to our popula- Lion, upon thc fair estimated value of these resources, This ma)’ IP09" large to some, but I submit that noth- lng less will put us'ul1°l1 an equality with the other landless provinces.

Additional Claims

In addition t0 her claims ls onc of the landless provinces. Prince Ed- ward Island has claims which are p6-

clairns in common with NOV! 500"!- 511d New Brunswick, whcih were rec- ognized by the Duncan Commission when it recomnlendedjnterlm lily- ments of 8125.000. 8600-099 w‘! $375" 000 till final adjustments would be made. The common claims must of com-Se be pressed in common and adjusted in mmon, but our 0W1! chll-hs must-be kept entirely HW- Qt,’ pnd uplft. It has b8“ "Ira" ed that we merge all our claims Fm‘. those of Nova Bcotis and Ne" Brunswick and 9"?" l" l “mm” ettlement. I do not thin! worse ad- vioecould be xiv-n. m! I he!» It Wm no; Isa-followed. To ml! i9 the 0mm, 4,; "hm Edward Island that have nothing at all in common with