Vol. 111.]

AND

s @ulouial ibsralb.

fPRINcE EDWARD ISLAND ADVERTISER.

. CHARLOTTETOWN, SATURDAY, MARCH 28, 1840.

[No. 139.

COLONIAL LEGISLATURE.

SATURDAY, February 29.

_—

STATUTE LABOUR ACT. (Debate continued.)

Mr. LOIGWOBTB did not see anything very objectionable in the Resolution, except that it went rather too much into detail. He meant to propose a commutation, and, if that were carried, a Bill might then be drafted in accordance with the principlepreviously recog- nized.

Mr. D. Macnoasnn would opposathe Resolution. Lftho present Act did not work as well as it once did, the fault, in his opinion, was pot with the people, but with the overseeis. Still, however, ‘there would, even then, remain one cause of complaint, not of the inefliciency of the statute labour, but of the principle of injustice in the character of the law, inasmuch as by it the rich were not more heavily taxed than the poor. '

Mr. PALMER acknowledged the Act required amendment, but said he had not heard any plan proposed which was calculated to improve it. Ifthe law did not affect its object, he believed it was more owing to the supineuess of the Commissioners and Overseers than to the'laziness of the people. Overseers were not constantly present; the were averse to be regarded as negro-drivers, and it was natural or the people to take advantage of the remissness of Overseers. When the principle of commutation was introduced, it was thought that none, however our, would choose the alter- native of work. They had found tiey were mistaken. Many

ersons in the country were so poor, that it was impossible for them 10 pay in cash. A general commutation cannot take effect. Many individuals are not possessed of a shilling between January and December. lvaerseers were compelled to make their returns on .oarh; they would have a sufficient apology for their strictness, and one which would be regarded by, and excuse them to, the people.

Mr. SPEAKER said, it was understood that the old Act had, for a long time, been very eflicient; but bad habits will overrun a coun- try. A single individual was frequently sufficient to introduce bad hgbirs to a moat mischievous extent; both as Commissioner and Overseer he had sufficient experience of that -. he would like to see

_ a uniform system of statute labour enacted. There should be one

Commissioner for each County with a fixed salary of £30 a year; ineddition to which he might be allowed 3 per cent. upon the money .xpended upon the roads in his County, in a year, which might be ibout £500: his salary would then be about £45 a year.

The Hon. Mr. Porn said, such a mode would never remunerale a Commissioner for the discharge of his duty. It would not even pay ‘for his horse hire or his lodgings when travelling through his dis- trict. if at present a Commissioner did his ditty, £10 a year was I) no means a sufficient compensation for his trouble. .When he began to act as a Commissioner he found the discharge of his duties took up one halfor one third of his time. It was not so now, for the roads in‘his district having been brought into a pretty good state, they now re aired less attention than formerly. If a man were appointed a Ommissinner for a. Whole County. a discharge of his duties as such would take up his whole time in summer. All'knovv Mr. Mabey. For along time he sat in this House as one of the representatives for Charlottetown, with the almost universal appro- bation of his constituency. His activity as a Road Commissioner would also be very well remembered by many. 'At the time he acted in the latter capacity, had the Government allowed him £200 «£300 a year, it would have been no more than he deserved. But afler zealously and faithfully discharging the duties of his office, by compelling others to perform their share of labour upon the 'roads, had he again, at an election, sought the support of some of those

greens whom he had caused to do their duty, although they would formerly have supported him, they Would have endeavoured to boot and scout him from the hustings. This would show how invidious a duty Commissioners and Overseers had to perform. Were he offered £100 or £150a year to act as Road Commissioner for a whole County, he would not acce t it; and no conscientious man could do it for one fartbing less. fa Commissioner were in fault, hii‘delinquency ought to be made known in the proper quarter, and his dismissal from office would follow ofcourséz’ With' an overseer. however, he was disposed to sympathize. If the overseer did his duty, he was almost bound to keep up a quarrel and fight with his ‘ueighbours for a whole week at a time. The overseers want ower to enforce the law without rendering themselves liable to the ill Will of their neighbours. He would of'all things prefer a monev taxhefore statute labour, if he thought the country in a fit state for it. Road Commissioners here, as in other Colonies,’should have power to employ a sufficiency oflnbour to keep the roads at all times in a proper state of repair. If a Road Commissioner bad a rtiou of the grants placed at his disposal, he might employ hanger. at my season of the year. At present, Commissioners were held responsible for the state oftlie public roads, without their having inserts at their disposal to keep them in repair. To do away Wiiin QB; {’bfiéiiofi; Yfiiecimg me misapplication of moneys. he would suggest that Commissioners should, in all cases. make their

returns on oath, accompanied by vouchers ofexpenditure. And

Overseers being also required to send in their returns on oath . ‘ would very far do away with the invidiou‘a nature of their duty; and ' ‘

besides being I relief to themselves it would also yield satisfaction to those who faithfully performed their tasks, and who, like free horses, were almost worked to death, while surrounded by a setpf lazy fellows who ridiculed them for their simplicity and laughed at the aetliorit of the overseer. If such a plan as be had spoken-of should be brought in, he would be inclined to go along With it, and to consent tp its hayingu t‘rial: I

Hr. Bauer. 5523, their ébiéi object ought to be to relieve the poor, and to make the rich pay according to their abilities.

Mr. Hanson said. a money assessment would be very severely felt. Two thirds ofthe population were unable to meet it. There were buildgeds and thousands of persons upon farms in the back fiffifiqfil’who Were not in possession of one dollar in mopey from ooh , 'ear's end to the other. A money assessment might smart; harlottetown; perhaps it might answer in Georgetown ; but it‘ ohbld not be borne by the country generally. He would go along with any amendment which was likely to improve the work- in of the present Act; but he would oppose a money tax. _

r. Frussn fully coincided in opinion on this subject Wllh tho honourable member who had last spoken.

Mr. Yxo said it was in back settlements that roads were most wanted. Poor people in these settlements would not only have an opportunity of working up their own money, but of earning that of others. .

Mr. Mscntiu. thought the best way WOIHd be to allow the inat- urte'ltand over till the next session; and, in the mean while, honourable‘memben might acquire-thatfinfiirmation of which they ‘09 appeared to be in some degree Melsntgand which was [neces-

to enable them to make a beneficial alpgation‘ in the Act under consideration. ' x. p

Hr, Goals! laid, they (honourable members) were all road maker: or Commissioners: they know quite enough about the nutter. What wll pm!)med WI! “0! a money tax ; it was merely Jfl‘ui a means to compel persons faithfully to discharge a duty which they alike owed to themselves and the community at large. It was something «like the penal laws against thieves and robbers : when thieves and robbers disappeared, the lime against them would dieap ar also. If a man would not perform .1"! statute labour flithrlly, but tried to skull: and play, it was right and proper to nah-hm oontrlbotein money. _ ,' :~ _

In!“ replied, that it seemed all Mr.vGorman sawmthg m ofmaey was that it would compel a man to work upon: the roads; but be (Mr. Re.) new much more. It came to this; the money would go into the hands of Commissioners and Overseers. and by them in paid to two or three individuals. Ifa Commissioner regard- .d his own pom and-ease. he would” have to yield _to such a dis- nitration of the money. There was not a single petition before the flue cullingfor any alteration in the Statute Labour Actfi he“ had never heard that see an alteration was in agitation, till“ the honour- able member (Mr. Yeo) had introduced it to the House. .H'o_ S‘Mr. Rae) thought they were not warranted in entering upon it wit out

, previous enquiry and consideration. In the heat of debah, it was

possible, they might make some alteration, or introduce some prin- ciple, the recognition of which might not be for the general good. He was entirely opposed to the principle of a money assessment.

,It was very easy to complain that the people made only a pretence

ofworking; but many individuals drive their Waggons along roads which have been made entirely by statute labour. Great regret was ex ores-ed at the loss which industrious fiiriners suffered by being oh 1 ed to work on the roads, When it would be far more profitable for t em to.pay a moderate sum in money. Did the present Act prevent their doing so? Did it not encourage them to do so? The purposed change, the plan pf making every one pay money, was

rounded on pretence and nothing else. It would be accompanied

y injustice: it bore. oppression on its front. ‘ It was to say that the Legislature would not accept from the poor inau the labour of his hands, with which faculty Providence hail cindowed him; but that the-Legislature would insist on demanding fro'ni him money, with which he had not been born, and which lié might never acquire. Was a liberal House, chosen by much exertion on the art ofthe people, prepared to sanction such monstrous doctrine ’ fthere be a change, let it be one founded on correct rinciplcs. Let us take the Act of New Brunswick, and we won (1 there find that if the poor man chose to work, the overseer could not exact money. And let us take still more of their plan. Let us make the rich pay for that road over which they career with their blood horses, nou— rished for their pleasure out oftlie funds too lavishly supplied them from the public purse. At present, the man on fiftv acres ofrented land With but two sorry horses, contributes as much to the mainteé nanca of roads, as the man who lives on 200 or 300 acres of his own land, or on £400 or £500 of rent extorted from the cultivators.

Mr. PALM-ER did not approve of a postponing of the buainess. He thought it would be better to take the sense of the Committee as to whether any alteration should be made in the law; and,to try it, he submitted a Resolution nearly to the following effect:—

“ That it is the opinion of this Committee, that the present Act, regulating the performance of Statute Labour, be altered and amend- ed in different respects; and, in particular, by requiring commuta- tion-from all persons now liable to perform statute labour, without leavtng to any person the option of performing actual labour."

Mr. 'Rn: apprehended that, by Mr. Palmer‘s mode, they would have cllher to pledge themselves to certain principles or to reject all amendment.

.Some discussion then took place, as to whether any alteration shouldbe made in the law, with a view to its going into immediate _Operatiou, or simply by bringing in anew Bill, to be printed for the information oftlie people, and allowing it to stand over till the next session. .

The Hon. Mr. POPE thought a Bill might be brought in, printed, and allowed to stand over till the next session.

Mr. Maoiivrosu acknowledged that the Act required amendment. He thought it would be loss of time to postpone it. The amend- ment was wanted now and might now be made.

‘ Multan would not concede to any principle until'ha had referred it to his constituents. ’

The Hon. Mr. POPE would never admit, that on all occasions,

when the alteration or introduction of a law became necessary, it was the duty of honourable members directly to consult their con- stitluents. ouch a proceeding would be an actual acknowledgment ofthcir own incapacity to grapple, not only with any unforeseen emergency, but with any measure suddenlycrising out of the com- mon business of the country. If a Bill were liouglit in, making any very great alterations in the law, he would certainly wish it. to be printed for the information of the people. Although he thought it unnecessary to go and consult his constituent. could lie assem- ble them all at once, he did not say he would ra'i‘fise to pay defer- ence to the majority of them. _ Mr. Ru: did not consider that the printing of a Bill would render it necessary for honourable members to call nice 5 0f their constituents. The printing oftlie - Bill would merely e a warning to the people. -In the next session, if no petitions' were sent in against it. they might pass it into a law. .z'

The Hon. Mr. POPE said, it surely would be a relief to a' our man to allow him to pay the value of one day‘s lahtiur instea of Working three. He thought it would answer if the commutation money were reduced as low as three shillings.

Mr..MAClNTOSH would object to taking away the option from a man either to pay money or to work. lfit were compulsory upon people to pay in money,the law would have a very bad effect.

I On Mr. Yeo‘s Resolution being submitted to the vote, the House divided: Yeas, 10; Nays, 10. The Chairman, the Hon. J. S. Macdonald, in giving his casting vote against the Resolution. said, he did not approve oftaking away the option ei'her to pay in money pr actually to perform the labour. There were many settlements in which in twenty or thirty families it would be impossible to find twepty or thirty shillings. On the Speaker taking the Chair, the Chairman reported the following Resolutions :— .

RssoLvau, Thatit is the opinion of this Committee, that the system by which Statute Labour is performed, and commutation, mane ' expended on the public roads of this Island, does not ope'ratc with due a vantage to the Colony. V '

RESOLVED, That a Committee of seven members be appointed, to pro. pure and brine in a. Bill to amend the Art, 3 Will. 4-, cap. 2, intituled “ An “ Act to regulate the performance of Statute Labour on the Highways, and “ for other purposes therein mentioned."

A Committee was then appointed to carry the said Resolutions into effect. ’

Mr. Ru: moved, that it been instruction to the Committee, to provide that Commissioners of Roads, and Overseers, be required to malts affidavit eyery year, that they have complied with the requi- Stltuns of the Act; and also to provide that the Statute Labour be apportioned to polls, teams, income and property.

Mr. Yxo thought it would take a wise man indeed to ascertain the incolne of every man in the country. .

Mr. RAE said that, in reference' to the motion which he had just made, as to the road work being done in proportion to polls, teams,

roperly and income, the hon. member for l'ripce County (Mr. Tea) need not think it was such an impossibility to ascertain a man's property or income.‘ True, it’mi ht sometimes be imaginary, as ifs merchant‘s propert should be va ued at £5000, when, in re- ality, lie was not worth 31000, or a lawyer's income at £300, when it was not more than £100; but they had their reinedyf-ilrey might make affidavit, which ought to be taken; and iftl'to desire ()fuppetir- ing wealthier than they really were led them to refrain from so do- ing, they must bear the loss. But, as hon. gentlemen on the other sideware so fond of precedent, he had one ready for‘tbem. It was the Road Act of New Brunswick of 1836, which went on precisely the same principles be (Mr. Rae) advocated. He had been opposed to any change in the Road Act at the present time, because be t iought

' the house had enough to do with other matters; but, since it must

be changed, letit not be changed the wrong Way, by making the poor man pay money which, perhaps, he had not, and giving him merely a chance ofgetting this money back, by a competition wherein the'capriCeflgnorance or 'ariiality ofan overseer, or the nature of the job, might prevent him from competin ; but let it be changed the right way, and let the rich man pay for t to roads over which he careered with his blood horses.

Mr. Tucnsos asked it'Mr. Rae had forgotten his declaration, that lie would not concede to any principle until he had h‘d an oppor- tunityto consult his constituents. .

Mr. L: LACHEUR was ofopinion, that when a Committee was ap- pointed to prepare and bring in a Bill, they were aware oftlie opinions of the majority ofthe House on the subject. The House might as well frame the Bill themselves. He would vote against the instruc-

tion. . The Hon. Mr. Pore said he thought the Special Committee had

- hiid full power given them to bring in ii Bill, and this was seeking

to take it away from them again. He would vote against it. The hon. member (Mr. Rae) was now on twenty-5Y0 or thirty commit- tees. He (Mr: Pope) hadno objection to his doing all the business;

I but he should not be allowed to run away with the ideas ofothers.

He should not either lead or drive him. He w0;uld move the pre-

vious question—“ Shall the question he now put? ’ - Mr. RAE said the lion. member (Mr. Pope) had said that be (Mr.

Rae) wished to take the lead in every thing; that be was already

C

fl = -

member oftwenty or thirty Committees—most of which had not re- ported; that he believed he wished to do the whole business of the Colony, and to take the credit of this motion from the Committee to himself. He (Mr. Rue), however, did not seek this business—re- sisted the opening of the matter; but, since itwas opened, let them go to the bottom. These instructions appeared to comprehend the most prominent parts of what, in the Committee- of the whole House, appeared to meet general approbation, or least objection, and they had reason to expect that the Bill would be in conformity there- with; but the Genera Committee had not gone through the form of resolving that these should be instructions to the Special Committee. —He (Mr. Rae) had wished to i’emedy the informality; but, since the members ofibe Committee, and, especially, the Hon. Mr. Pope, had no objections to the matter, but only to the mover—since the Hon. Mr. Pope had said, that he would have done all this in the Bill without his (Mr. Rae's) prompting, be (Mr. Rae) would nut take up the time of the House. It was not their good opinion he came there to seek, nor his own reputation, but the good ofthe country; and iftliat were attained, he cared little for the blazeniug his pivn name.

The Speaker put the previous question—“Shall the question he now put?" The House divided—

Ysas—Messrs. Rue, Fraser, D. MacdonaId—_3.

Navs—Hon. J. S. .Mardonald, Messrs. Palmer, Yea, Pope, La La- cheur, Thomson, Montgomery, German, Dalziel, Beck, W. Dingwell, Longwarth, Jllucinlash,flrbucltle, Hudson—15.

. Mr. TiioMson.obtaincd leave to introduce a Bill to authorize the appointment of Coroners in Kings and Prince Counties. He ac- ‘ cordineg presented the said Bill to the House; and the same was read the first time, and orderedvto be read a second time on Monday next. .

nsnzev ntssnvss.

The House resolved itself intoa Committee of the whole, on the, further consideration of the Bill for the regulation of the Fishery Reserves in this Island. When the Clause respecting the Lots whio dolnot contain any Reservation was under consideration, -

The Hon. Mr. l’ora said he could see no use in the clause. It was without meaning. He would move it should be struck out of the Bill.

Mr. Rs: said it was very necessary to insert the clause, as its omission should be deemed a renunciation ofa right to a future ex- tension of the Fishery Reservations. _

The Hon. Mr. Pore said they had no right to say anything about it. When a grant has been passed under the Great Seal, it_ was not in their ower to infringe it. The clause~might be considered as words Without moaning. ’ _

Mr. MACINTOSH thought it: was the bestclause in the Bill.

M1. Penman said he had hitherto taken no part in the discussion, either one we or the other, but not because he W’as averse to any measure which might set :it rest this important and unhappy question. The great oint he had always thought tube, the defining where they slioultrdraw the line of demarcation, in declaring what extent of coast or shore should be subject to the reservations. This should be a main object oftlie enactments. They would never otherwise be able to Settle the question to the satisfaction of Tenant, Crown, or Landlord. \Vitliout precisely ascertaining and establishing this, there would be continual bickering, strife ‘and law-suits on the sub- ject, originating With smile or one ofthese parties. Last Session it was proposed to determine it by disinterested persons, tobe appoint- ed Cominissmnere for the purpose: no provision of this kind was made, no notice of it even was taken in the present Bill; but he considered the overlooking of it to be the omisston ofa most use"- tial point. The next thing should be to establish a tribunal to souls all disputes between occupants ofreserves and fishermen, when the latter applied for a piece of ground. \Vlien be last saw the Bill‘it merely required the fisherman to give a certain notice to the farnier that a certain station was wanted for a 'fishery, but it provided no way to compel a compliance on the part ofthe farmer. ' That, how. ever, was now altered, and if efl'ectually, so for well and good—Le; it be left in the breast ofa Magistrate or ofsomc other person to hem- botli parties, and when he lins ascertained that a man really intend, to carry on u fishery, let him view the ground, lay'it Oil and report to the proper Tribunal with all convenient speed. He would not even stop there, but give a power to carry it before a higher tribu. on], if either party should consider himself aggrieved, for he would be very sorry to see any man authorized to enter into the fields or enclosure of another, to take a piece ofhis land, unless the circum- stances of the case fully justified the act. Unless such provisions as these were made, it would be better not. to legislate at all, and thereby not open a new and more fruitful field for litigation. lfit were meant Simply to encourage the fisheries, let them legislate merely so far as was necessary for the accommodation and protection offishermen. But if it were only meant to frame a law of'that na. turc that tenants should hold the fishery reserves, despite both oflhe landlord and the Crown, let such intentions he expressed; let hon. members. openly declare it, and the real object of the Bill be laid open to discussion. He certainly thought that when a piece ofgrcund was taken for a fishery station, the landlord should not be entitled to any rent‘ for that piece; but he would not consent that a fisherman should be held at buy by the occupant holding adversely to both the Crown and the proprietor. He positively declared that,unlcss these princ1plcs were admitted, he would oppose the Bill in its present shape, from beginning to end. lie would have the House to take "P0" tllcmSOchS the defining oftbe extent ofthe Fishery Reserves, under IJoth clauses 6flleservution in the Grants, with a proviso to this effect respecting Grants which have been lost, ifthey be here- after found, and contain the fishery Reservations. He thought, that ofthe vast extent oflund, or territory he might say, in the aggregate quantity reserved. but a very small comparative part would suffice for all the purposes of the Fisheries, as fiir as experience had shewn us, or present prospects in that branch ofour trade demanded; the hon. member who lives to see the whole required, will have a very grey head—God forbid that be mold live so long. He did not know, nor was it for him to inquire, whether the Legislative Council would persist in the amendments niferedvby them last year ; but he would say the most of them were necessary, and well adapted to the sub.