30, 1932 ‘T

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TL,’ Budget debate was con- mugd last evening in the Legis- by Hon. H. F. MacPhee, m, after a. lengthy and brilliant “m, was followed by Messrs. Gallant (Liberal, First muse). and Mr. Thomas Wlgmore (WW-votive, First Queens). Mr. yngmore spoke only a few mln- M before moving the adjourn- ”; at 11 o'clock. The House ad- ed until 10 a. m. today. M1_MacP‘hee reviewed the re- wks he had made in the brief time at his disposal before moving m; gdjournment on Wednesday ev- mmg, The debate had covered a. yjde field and it was natural, fol- lowing an election, that some of the "leeches should have taken the mm of a post mortem of promises, gglleged promises made during the gmpaign. The hon. member from Rustioo, m. LePage) had said it was nev- q- s part of God's plan to erect will walls between countries. Much advice had been given the Gov- ernment but Mr. LePage had been the only “ to enunciate a Divine plan. In politics, unfortun- ately, it is not always easy to ad- here to the Divine plan. "A good many of the things we say-and perhaps some of the things we write. cannot be said to fall within that plan," added Mr. MacPhee pointedly, amid laughter. l

Reviewing the increased expendi- tures under the Liberal regime, the speaker said the important point was that the‘ Province did not receive value for that increase.

The Premier's budget speech had been confined entirely to the ques- tion at issue. He had taken the people into his confidence and stat- ed exactly what the financial posi- iion was. The Opposition had com- plained that the budget speech was pessimistic in tone. If geously revealing’ the true situation was pessimism, then that criticism was justified. The Premier's speech was, as his speeches also were, timely and" to the point.

The speeches of the two other portfolio members, Hon.- Mr. Sharp and Hon. Dr. MacMlllan, were also referred to approvingly by Mr. Mc- Phee.

“We feel that we have in our present Minister of Agriculture, a man who by his experience and ability is eminently qualified for the position," Mr. McPhee continued. The late Liberal Minister was also competent. However, it is felt throughout the country that the Department of Agflculture has not been leading the people as it should. having regard to the importance of the agricultural industry. The feel- ing is general, Mr. McPhee believed, that the type of farmer who par- ticularly needs help is not receiving it. This may be due to the failure of this type of farmer to co- operate with the Department; but whatever the cause, this is one of the difficulties facing the present Minister. in achieving the results which it is hoped to obtain.

Unfair Comparlso

Commenting on Mr. Mclntyre's comparative statements of expandi- tures under Liberal and Conserva- tive administrations, Mr. MacPhee pointed out the fallacy of such methods of comparison. For exam- ple, it has been the settled policy of all governments, insofar as rev- enues made it possible, to 1 ,‘ wornout wooden culverts with con- crete and steel structures, but no comparison has any value which takes account only of the number of such structures. The nature and difficulty of the work involved, as wcll as many other factors, enter into the matter.

"Our criticism of the endlturo on public works under the late ad- ministration is this," continued Mr. MacPhee, "that the some results mliilt have been achieved with a has expenditure."

Mr. McIntyre had contended that l" l-lwlva called for tenders and lhflt a. particular system had been followed. ‘Ilhat in itself meant nothing. ‘I'm cx-mlnlster had him- Elf said that unusual expenditures "I! " made in the election Nmpaisn without the depart- Milt‘! consent. In other words the “Plfllflcllt had lost control over it: own employees. In one district “m9- OVBI’ $83,000 had been ex- "Mefl last year for public works Ind these extraordinary expendi- llares were blamed upon the engin- eers "who avparently had com;- ln_ '4’ l-he Minister's office and taken ‘twain: out of the vary unable.

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osition Arguments Scored In bate By Hon. H. F. McPhee, StressedImportanceOf Pre- . sent Grave Financial Situation. ]\/fr, A eneas Gallanfs Maiden Speech Follolfii.

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(looking) hands of my hon. friend."

“We do not have to look very far to recall the condition of the roads when this Government assumed of- fice," the speaker aid, adding that it took a great deal of work to put the roads into shape again. So far as he could see there was never any attempt made to initiate a consist- ent pollcy of road maintenance. For example, a large expenditure would be incurred in one section and then the road would be allowed to fall into disrepair, involving a further large expenditure to reconditlon it.

This he considered was one of the most serious errors into which the ex-Minlster had fallen. No matter how much money is expended or how carefully the roads are put in shape, if a consistent policy of road maintenance is not followed they will not be satisfactory.

Had Mr. McIntyre recalled how the Bell Government farmed out tenders, to men who never at- tempted to do the work? Mr. Mc- Phee asked, illustrating his argu- ment that it was not the method of allottlng the work but the con- trol exercised by the Department that really mattered.

Mr. Campbell ered

Mr. MacPhee then dealt with the criticism advanced by Mr. Thane Campbell of alleged irreg- ularity in the appointment of the Minister of Health and Education. This criticism was of such a ‘nat- ure that it was regarded as an at- tempt at humor on Mr. Campbell's part, nor did Mr. MacPhee yet be- lieve that the hon. gentleman, yvith, his legal experience, was speaking seriously. Mr. Campbell's c ‘ tion, as Mr. MacPhee understood it, was that the Act by vlrtue'of_ which the Health and Education Minister had been appointed, was to come into effect on a proclama- tion based on an order in council. and that because the date of pub- lication in the Royal Gazette was after the appointment, therefore the whole thlngwas irregular. The Act, Mr. MacPhee pointed out, ex- pressly says that it is the proclam- ation and not the publishing of the proclamation. that brlr]; the appointment into effect; and the proclamation is made when the Great Seal of the Province and the signature of the Lieutenant Gov- ernor is affixed, aswas done in this case.

Mr. MacPhee cited, as illustra- tion, the manner of the appoint- ment of Sheriffs by the late Lib- eral Government after the last election.

Mr. Campbell, at this point, ask- ed if everything was perfectly regular, why it had been thought necessary to introduce Sec. 2 of the Health and Education Act.

Hon. Mr. MacPhee: “Sec. 2 of the Health and Education Act had nothing to do with the appoint- ment of the Minister of Health and Education."

Mr. Campbell: “If everything had been valid there would be no question of the Minister's appoint- ment." _

Hon. Mr. MacPhee: “There is no question! (Applause). I would ask my hon. friend to dwell on I-lec. 2 as closely and carefully as he has appeared to dwell on this proclamation and I think he will be convinced in that regard also. I still do not think that my hon. friend, in spite of his persistence, thought for one moment that there was anything invalid nbdut the ap- pointment. I think he is a better lawyer than that. I know he real- izes that the proclamation, to have effect, would not require to be pub- lished in the Royal Gazette.‘ These are the reasons why we did not take these criticisms seriously." (Increased applause).

“The Breath of Life"

The conservatives had been crit- icised for saying thag the people had asked the Liberal Government for “bNId" in the matter of educat- ion improvement and hnd been given a~"stone." The Health and Education Act, Ml‘. MacPhee contin-

lern thing-until ' the Governor breathed life into it by signing the proclamation creating the portfolio. It was not a. new practise, he ad- ded, for the Libesls-to dispose of the'r obligations simply by paling Acts and letting it go at that. The speaker nexg referred to tho importance of the report of the m.

ued, was truly a "stol\s"-_-a life- '

not Pblltlflll- On the contrary it in- dented an earnest attempt on the part of the Minister of Health and Education to deal properly with that institution.

Citing the criticisms of the Op- position with respect to the distri- bution of the unemployment grant. Mr. McPhee scored unfounded statements of Liberal members which obviously had been made for political effect- The late Hon. Ml’- McNeill had been solicltous that as far as possible this money should reach the people who really needed it. There may have been occasions under both governments when ex- penditures were not. as equitably apportioned as they rnilhil ill-VB been. Mr. McPhee pointed out that such instances had occurred under Liberal rule. He instanced the work on Grant's Bridge, $988.30. Of this amount Daniel Grant had receiv- ed $365.30 and ChaIlesGrant $475.

Mr. McIntyre: “Those were under contracts for poles. In both cases they were lower b)’ $100 or "~50 than any others."

Hon. Mr. Mnolllco: “My b011- friend has given his explnnatioll- Let rne give mine. Dr. Grant who was formerly s. Liberal member of this House and who was a short while ago a federal Liberal candidate for Kings County, is the brother of these two men."

Mr. McIntyre: ‘That does not say anything."

Hon. Mr. McPhee: "That is a typical case of expenditure on one small bridge under my hon. friend's administration, where the bulk of the money went to two brothers of a man prominent in Liberal polit- fcs" '

In another instance cited by Mr. MacPhee it was shown that out of a total expenditure of $18,801 on a road project under the unemploy- ment grant, over $12,000 went to purchase material and only about $6,000 went to the laboring classes. He mentioned one Summerslde Lib- eral firm as having received $2,226

Scores Rumor Mange ing.

Dealing. with ,_ hibitlon Mr. Mao- Pheerscored the hearsay criticisms nuade by the member for First Prince ilnd- ‘suggested that if the gos- sip had been taken out 0f the gen- tlemams speech there would not be ,much lofts l-le. pointed out that the Liquor Vendor under the Liberals was drawing a salary of 32.20011. year; that ‘Mr. Haywood was receiving $2500 as Prohibition Prosecutor and ,clted also the salaries enjoyed by Provincial Police and others. The Government that had been able in pay these high salaries had no mon- ey to afford for the more important purpose of establishing a proper de- partment of health and education. Tlfs had been left for the present Government to do, and it had suc- ceeded by introducing economies in the administration of police and pro- hlbltlon enforcement as well as in other departments.

The government had been able to retain the services of a 82,500 man at $90 a month and had instituted other economies which had enabled it to implement the recommendat- ion of the Education Commission for the creation of a department in the‘ interests of health and education.

The rumors mentioned by Mr. Campbell ln connection with the “Liberal/Prohibition Navy" were dealt with by Mr. McPhee who said, h’ rumors were tobe admitted, he also could place some on record. 1t was credltably reported, he said, that Mr- Lee. while attending ‘the annual meeting of the West Prince Liberal Association advised the bulders of the boat in question to "get her- in the water quick before the election was on or they might never be paid" (Laughter and ap- plause.) '

Subsidy Claims

Dlllllg with the arguments ud- vanced in defense of the Liberal failure to secure subsidy claim; set- tlement, Mr. McPhee pointed out that reduction of taxes by the sgew- m‘- Gvwmment has nothing to do Wlth that fallure- The fact that this flfsumerlt was advanced indicated that the late Government had no’ proper conception of the most im- portant factor in our case for in- creased subsidy.

Another Liberal omits-nth)“ w“ that the other Mlrltimg pmvmm h" MM w ell-operate. m». Mac- Phee in reply reviewed the “appoint- Infill" 0f the Audit Board under "to Mlilhhllv Kins Government. The adjudication of this Board was Mflfiliféd by the liberal ‘Government of this Province in spite of the exc pressed disapproval of business men Ind. othcrsofbotl; political parties; 1W“ mawuuv tau-role for m. Audit Board to deal with subsidy claims settlement, w, mph“ ma. "INHI- but the Iallari Government Mutated in its WlIIO.‘ when the flflll rcaull was lmown the Audit Boom itael ldmlttcd that 1e has

Cllltidfl alone uwyaudlt 8W4 "l" my,“ plllnly 1n its report thatil~ ft had had authority it would ‘luvs ‘dmdgcaud m; principles that were altogether wrvnl. - '

Instead of blamhll the other Mhrltimc Provincu for lalluls i0 co-operaio Mr. MacPhee decllrfid that on the contrary the will-Ill! of this Province in eleeirns to ti!’ the course which it took-and in M‘. lining up with Nov! Sootla and Nd! Brunswick in insisting that the mat- ter should be dealt with h! I Wm‘ pcfcllt tribunal, was when the reason why the Marltimes dfd7not receive their settlement.

Mr. MacPhee then dealt with the so-called "ideal budget" ‘presented by the Lea Government before the Audit Board showing that the act- ual expendlturu in the various de- partments exceeded the “ldeal" amount budgeted for which meant ‘either that the Government had been spending extravagantly or they did not themselves take seriously the Board before which the‘: brief was presented.

Mr. Campbell had charged that there was $75,000 of insurance lost through Government bugling.

we lose what we did not have?" Thd final result of this Govern- ment's insurance changes is that this Province is over $100,000 bet- ter off than it otherwise would have been, he declared Had the Liberals been in office and the insurance been left at the figure it was under the Liberal rule, the insurance on Falconw ’ and Prince of Wales College would have been $100,000 less.

Mr. MacPhee also pointed out that if Hon. Dr, MacMillan had said, “B0 cents per $1,000," as Mr. C pbell alleged, the Minister had obviously intended to say "80 cents per $100."

This criticism of Mr. Campbell was “small politics," Mr. Mac- Phee declared. The fact was that the premium basis was reduced by $1643.01 and, on the other ‘hand, the gain in insurance received is $100,000.

Mr. Campbell had assured the House that he entertained no “soreness" for having been de- feated in the by-election in the iSecond District of Prince; and he had quoted in this connection the lines from Shakespeare:

"Sweet are the uses of adver-

sity; . .

Which, like a toad, ugly and venomous,

Wears yet a. precious jewel in his head."

This quotation Mr. MacPhee

thought a wonderfully apt one. “Adversity" of courne, referred to the loss of the by-election. But the “precious jewe" was the Attorney Generalship, which . the hon. gentleman still retained des- pite his defeat. (Laughter). Pet'- haps, Mr. MacPhee suggested, ad- versity teaches ita best lessons when it is unaccompanied by any "jewels."

Regarding the complaints of dia- missal of road. superintendents, Mr. McIntyre had himself admit- ted that he could not keep these officials under control. How then. asked Mr. MacPhee, did he expect the Conservatives to do so? It was provided by statute that these officials should hold office at the pleasure of the Lieutenant Gov- ernor-in-Councll, and the statu- tory provision had been complied with» in every respect. ' ' Mr. MacPhee then dealt with economics instituted by the present Government. He pointed out that the three Crown prosecutors ap- pointed by this Government receive a total of less than the amount bald Mr. Haywood as r hlbition |ll ernment. In addition these prosecu- tors are performins duties which it was customary to employ lawyers to perform. g

In conclusion, the speaker em_ Dhaslzed the importance of consid- ering the real financial position at this time. It is ‘ possible for the" Government to succeed in eoonom-. lllng without the co-operation of the people as a whole. ffherre. W"! budset speech, he believed, 91°11“ 111111118! on the people that there are many thinggwhlqh we would like to have, but which we cannot at this time afford,

s.

Mn. AENIAS GALLANT

‘ Congratulations to the Speaker and regret at the death of the late Hon. Icons-rd MacNclll and Hon. P. A- 561111)’ were expressed by Mr, Mum Gallant. (I'll-st Prince). the next speaker in the debate, who da- nmld his maiden address. He lvmlllthised with the Government in the loss of Falconwood Hospital and Prince of Wales College; also In the terrible storm that the first Stewart Government encountered "1 "m1!!! into power. Apparently there was "a rnalediction following "l" Government" and at-the hm "Billion the P101110 would think

M authority to adjudicate upm our claims.

‘rho ashlar upon r th Audie’ saw-elm omnibus! Ilaaaellumbarldlua

zuflmlllv before ‘marking their bu.

Ml‘. Gallant said .there_ wag no

“How," asked Mr. MacPhee, "can-»

ecuto under the Liberal Gov--

been elected. They had merely told the truth.

The people, he continued, oolfld not see why Government mmbcra should have cars at all. It would be better to raise their salaries and

Jet them purchase theh- uwncars.

The name of the department lbmlld be printed on each portfolio rmmbel-‘s ear, he thought.

"In his district, m. Gallant said he could cite instances where not one Liberal received any work under the federal unemployment grant, as administered by this Govern- ment.

The First District bad been refer- red to as the North Pole. If it was the North Pole, credit should go to me Liberals for having discovered it, Mr. Gallant declared, If Mr. '1‘. A. Campbell had accepted the invitation he had received to con- test the seat ln the Second District in the general election, the wesent fllnlster of Agriculture would not be sitting in that seat now, Mr. Gal- lant maintained.

Continuing, he wuiplalned that there had been no word in the speech from the Throne about old age pensions. It was a great shame tn promise these pensions “when there was no intention, probably, of giving them."

The Government had also promis- ed rigid economy. This promise, Mr. Gallant contended, was not be- ing ‘ plerncnted. He instanced the appointment of a, Minister of Health and Education, as evidence to this effect.

Instead of appointing a. Purchas- ing Agent, the‘ Government should have appointed a commission to put old age pensions into effect. he thought. '

The speaker charged that two prisoner-s had recently vacated Queen's County Jail and had vis- ited the city, while they we're sup- posed to be under confinement. He also stated that while an ir. ,, tion was going on in that-jail, four bottles of rum had gone into the building. Was that, he asked, en- forcing Prohibition? , Mr. Gallant hoped the Govern- ment would take into consideration some of the points he had raised, and make the unplovcments sug- gested.

MR. THOMAS WIGMORE

Mr. wigmore, (First Queens) con- gratulated the Speaker and also the leader of the Government on his success in the election and on the splendid choice he had made of Cabinet ministers.

Fitting reference was also made by Mr. Wigrnore to the late Hon. Mr. MacNelll.

The record of his district. ls the birthplace of prominent men and women, was given. lay-the speaker. who said he hadeveryreason to fcel honored at the privilege of re- presenting such a. constituency.

At 11 p. m. Mr. Wigmora moved the adjournment and the Housoad- journed until 10 a. m. today.

RAILWAYS (Continued from Page 1)

quirnault and Nanalmo and the Quebec Central Railways.-~ C. P. Rlddell, generalaecretary of the Railway Association of Can- ada, stated that the reducti would mean a saving for the year to the railways concerned of -a sum of ap- proximately 82,000,000. The man concerned are members of the all- Cnnadian federated shops trades, employed chiefly in "shops, round- houses and yards.‘ Negotiations leading to the agree- ment were conductedby commit- tees, one under the chairmanship of R... J. Tallon, president of the Canadian Branch ofblvislon No. 4, R " ay "Employees Department, American Federation of Labor, and one headed by Grant Hall, vice- president of the Canadian Pacific Railway, representing the railway interestn It is expected the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employees will ‘open negotiations with the railways next week in regard to s, glmflgr reduction. Some 40,000 section men, switehmen" and general laborers will be affected.